John Sheridan – Check out the Training Zone at METALCON 2023 - PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with John Sheridan from Sheridan Metal Resources. You can read the interview below, listen to the podcast or watch the video.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Hello and welcome to MetalCast from MetalCoffeeShop. My name is Heidi Ellsworth and we're talking about what's on everyone's mind, that is training. In fact, everyone needs training. And I have been lucky enough over the last couple years to become very good friends with Mr. John Sheridan, who is the premier metal roofing trainer in the US and kind of across the globe. And so we've asked him here today to talk to us a little bit about what's going on with training overall in the industry, but what's going to be happening at METALCON because there's a lot of great training happening there. So John, welcome to the show.

John Sheridan: Thanks, Heidi. No pressure after that introduction.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I just want to make you, you know? It's all true. It's all true. So why don't you introduce yourself and then everybody will see.

John Sheridan: So, John Sheridan, been in the roofing business for over 40 years, focused primarily on metal most of that time. Started out fabricating in a commercial roofing company and moved into more exotic and more highly detailed stuff as I got further along in my career. The last 20 years or so I've been training. Up until a couple of years ago, most of that training was for VMZINC. Now they're VM Building Solutions, USA. And that was a European company and zinc manufacturer, European detailing, pretty complicated stuff. A couple of years ago I met you and was introduced to Mark McDonalds from the MetalVue program and we started to kick around the idea of bringing more people into the metal business. And that's where we're at now, trying to develop that program. We've been able to do a couple of test runs and tweak it a little bit. And that will all come together at the training zone at METALCON, I hope.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yes, it will. It will. And there is just a need out there for training for metal roofing. It is such a craftsman or craftswoman trade. It really takes a lot. And you've trained a lot of different people over the thing. What are you seeing right now kind of overall in the industry when it comes to training for metal roofing? There's not a lot out there, is there?

John Sheridan: Doesn't seem to be. I mean, most of the manufacturers have a generic training program to satisfy their warranty requirements for somebody to install a roof. But it's just basic information. It doesn't really tell you how to adapt in the field or move beyond basic generic information. So that's what we try to focus on. To get into a specific manufacturer's profile or products, they're fine to start with, but once you get along a little bit further and you start doing more complicated things, and we are a huge help. That one-on-one.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, you need that one-on-one. You need the hands-on.

John Sheridan: Not only that, but you need somebody who can follow up who's been in the business and walk you through situations. I do that a lot. I mean, I'm in touch with people that I trained 20 years ago still.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Wow. And they can just call you and say, "Hey, I've got this unique situation."

John Sheridan: Yeah. So 95% of the things they can deal with, but every once in a while they're going to run into something and just call me up and pick my brain and see what I think. And most of the time I can solve it.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I love it. And that's so needed as you look at it. And so one of the things you and I have been talking about and have been really, really wanting to get out there is this additional training on a bigger scale of really showing people and making sure that they're aware of you, but also of all of the training, there's a lot of different training options out there, but a lot of people just don't know it. So one of the things we talked about was for this year's METALCON, creating a training zone or a metal roofing demo zone where people can come and get some real starter, see what you're doing. So talk to us about this training zone and your vision for it that will be happening at METALCON.

John Sheridan: So the training zone for me is going to be a no apprehension zone. Anybody who's interested in getting into the sheet metal business can come up and talk to us. It's going to be a laid back atmosphere, we'll have tools there, we'll have a bunch of different systems from several different manufacturers. I'm going to have a Spanish area, I'll have representation [inaudible 00:04:58] National Women in Roofing. I'll have a student of mine that you've met before, Nicole Pinto- [inaudible 00:05:04]

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, we have a podcast with her.

John Sheridan: Yeah. And I just wanted to be as inclusive as possible and de-stress people as much as possible and not be intimidated by getting into metal roofing. And once they get into our space and want to take a crack and getting into the metal business, then that's where the MetalVue Program kicks in. And they have an incredible suite of services that are offered through manufacturers that are just a super thing for people that are intimidated about trying to get into the metal business. It relieves so much pressure from that initial shock of trying to get into a whole new line of work.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. And right now metal roofing is in more demand than it's ever been. I mean, we're seeing the market share rising. We are seeing homeowners looking for it. And now through your efforts through MetalVue's efforts, it's really getting in front of homeowners in a really reasonable price. But if we don't have people to install it, it doesn't matter how many roofs or how much demand there is, we need people to install that. So to talk about that learning curve for either crews or roofing contractors or exterior contractors who want to put together crews to learn how to install metal roofing. I mean, I know you have a class and it's several days and follow up, right?

John Sheridan: So our classes are two or three days hands-on. We try to cover as much as we can in those two or three days. And again, try to keep in touch with people after the fact if they have any questions after the class. So to me, if you're getting into the metal business and you're not quite sure, you can control that apprehension by picking a system that you could deal with. Okay. So start with a system that's not over your head. Start with a system that's not super tool intensive. Vicwest for instance, has a great shingle system that they just developed that has all of the figuring worked out for you. All of their system components go together really simple. We'll be doing three different types of those at METALCON and they're going to be a fun hands-on thing that anybody can walk out of the crowd that's never touched a piece of metal and help us put that roof together and walk away feeling like they're comfortable working with that system. So that's my intention.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: So talk a little bit more about the type. So we have Vicwest. Can you tell us the three systems that you plan on having there?

John Sheridan: So Vicwest has, it's a shingle, it's a metal shingle. They have it in three different profiles. So one is a slate lookalike, the other is a wood shingle or wood shake lookalike. And the third is like a Spanish tile. Okay.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. Beautiful. I love it.

John Sheridan: Yeah. That's beautiful.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: You'll be demoing all those in the booth and showing people how to install them?

John Sheridan: So we'll have them all scheduled. Drexel Metals will have a snap lock system and a mechanical lock system, and I believe the same from McElroy. They'll also have a snap lock type system or nail fin system and probably a mechanical system. So we'll have several different systems covered, several different points of view from the English perspective, a Spanish teacher. National Women in Roofing will be able to walk people through that that are interested. So I think overall we'll be putting together a good presentation that reaches a good group of people and kind of helps demystify it a little bit.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That's the key. And then when people are at METALCON, once they go to the training zone and they see all your demonstration stuff, of course Roofers Coffee Shop, sorry, MetalCoffeeShop is going to be really close. We're going to be broadcasting from there and we'll have our sound stage. But there's all kinds, I mean, Vicwest, Drexel, McElroy, they all have booths. They're going to be there. And so people can actually then go get that information from manufacturers to really start putting something together along with Sherwin-Williams. Sherwin-Williams will have everything there on MetalVue. They're the sponsor of the training zone. So it really is the place to kind of bring it all together to get started.

John Sheridan: No, that's a good point. While we are doing the demonstrations at our booth, a rep from that company will be there. So while we're doing the Vicwest shingles, somebody from Vicwest will be there to answer questions, hand out literature, that kind of stuff. And same with Drexel and McElroy, they'll come over from their booth and they'll be standing by to answer any questions while we're putting those systems together. So it's good. It should be informational wise, it should be very good information.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And you're starting from wood decks and installing everything, the accessories, everything that goes with it.

John Sheridan: Yep. It will be complicated enough to get the point across and simple enough that people can join in, so. Yeah.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Oh, great. Talk about that. So contractors can actually come in and get some hands-on.

John Sheridan: Right. So we'll have tools. They can pick up tools and work with the tools. They can help us install the mockups. They can sit down, we'll have chairs and tables. They can sit down and talk to us if they have questions about further training, that kind of stuff. So we're going to try and cover as much of the getting into metal business part of the program as we can in those two and a half days. It will be good.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That'll be great. Yeah. And you'll be going all the show hours, you'll be on demoing for the most part. I'm sure you'll take a few breaks, John.

John Sheridan: Well, yeah. I mean, that's an interesting point. We're going to have three mockups, so we don't want them drowning each other out. So we're going to have it staggered so that while one person is beating a mockup together, another person can be doing something that's not as noisy, so.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Oh, so you should be going full time then.

John Sheridan: We'll definitely be going full time. Yeah.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, wow, that's great.

John Sheridan: Yeah, it will be good.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: So for all these contractors out here who are listening to this, who are thinking, okay, I want to get into metal roofing, you have a whole lifetime experience of being in metal roofing. What are some of your advice or tips or why would you tell contractors to get into metal roofing, to really bring it into their business?

John Sheridan: It's just one more tool in your tool belts. You don't want to limit yourself to just being a shingle roofer because eventually what happens is the skillset of your company grows and your company grows. And if you don't grow and add products as your company grows, people that are just getting into business and can undercut your price are going to be doing stuff cheaper than you anyway. So if you don't continue to expand and grow and increase the skillset of your people, you don't grow as a company. And metal is a big part of that.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I agree.

John Sheridan: And you can control that transition by picking, like I said, picking profiles that are easy transition profiles to move into the metal business with.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And there's demand. We're hearing it. There's all kinds of demand from homeowners, from building owners. I mean, the market just keeps growing.

John Sheridan: The demand is huge. Yeah.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: So if contractors, if they can't make it to METALCON, where else can they get this kind of training? How do they get ahold of you? How can they attend some of your trainings?

John Sheridan: So through MetalCoffeeShop, we have a page on MetalCoffeeShop. You can put them in touch. What we're going to do at METALCON is we're going to develop a questionnaire to see what kind of training people actually want.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Oh, great.

John Sheridan: Do they want entry level training? Do they want generic training? Do they want contractor specific training? Are you a subcontractor? Are you training people in your own company? That kind of stuff, so that we can zero in on the best way to service the industry. Because like you said, it's growing so fast and so big. If we can develop a system early on and scale that system up, that will be the way to service the business.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I agree a hundred percent, that we need to get more skilled labor.

John Sheridan: I mean, for instance, just through you, above and beyond the hands-on trainings, we can start doing video training.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And we do have some out there, just a little.

John Sheridan: Just a little. That's going to become more and more as we get into this more and more. We'll be posting more stuff that people can access through MetalCoffeeShop and be doing however you want to do it as far as podcasts. And we could even do training podcasts. We could live stream. However we can feed that audience. I think we have the ability to scale up and put something together that actually helps people.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, I do too. And you're right, you and I have been working together. We're going to get, we have more video coming, more training, and so let's start with first, if you're going to METALCON, here are the places you need to stop. You need to stop at the training zone, fill out that survey, get to know John and all of his team. They're amazing. And just watch and see what you think. I mean, the Vicwest tile, like you said, and Drexel and McElroy, they all have systems that will fit all the different needs that are out there. And be sure to stop by MetalCoffeeShop because we want to get you hooked up with MetalCoffeeShop and also maybe see what's happening on the sound stage. And we have lots of information there. And then you definitely need to stop by Sherwin-Williams.

Sherwin-Williams has information on the MetalVue Program, and that's why I was coming back around, John, is that with the MetalVue Program, you can also get training. So as you get involved with the MetalVue Program, there are opportunities to train with John through that and through the manufacturers too. So lots of different ways, you just kind of have to get out there. And if you can't make it to METALCON, definitely come to MetalCoffeeShop, because we can get you hooked up with MetalVue. We can get you hooked up with John on his directory and you'll be able to start figuring out where those classes are and how to take your business, either if you do a little bit of metal and want to do more, or if you don't do anything and you want to add it, now's the time.

John Sheridan: Yeah, we're pretty laid back. I mean, if you have any questions, just ask me a question, I'll answer it for you. It's not a real formal, it's not a real formal process. I just like to help people get through that initial phase. So anything we can do to kind of make that transition a little bit easier, we'll do our best to try and help you through it.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I love it. John, you are the best. Thank you so much. We're going to get this out there so we get some people coming by and watching and having fun at the training zone.

John Sheridan: Thanks, Heidi.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Thank you. Thank you all for watching this MetalCast. You can catch all of our MetalCast under the read, listen, and watch portion of MetalCoffeeShop. Look for MetalCast or on your favorite podcast channel. Be sure to subscribe and set those notifications so you don't miss a single episode. Along with YouTube, please subscribe and ring the bell so you can see all of our MetalCasts, which are also on video on YouTube. And we will be seeing you next time on MetalCast.