Innovation and Trends in Metal Construction - PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with Bobby Mesmer of RMG Erectors and Constructors. You can read the interview below or listen to the podcast.

Intro: Hello and welcome to MetalCast. This is a podcast from MetalCoffeeShop and it is live at METALCON 2024 in Atlanta, Georgia. We are sitting on the coffee conversations live soundstage, sponsored by New Tech Machinery and we are doing a podcast because we are like, hey, let's get a little bit longer, let's talk. So, we've got our expert, Bobby Mesmer here, we're going to talk about metal buildings. We are also live on Instagram. This is pretty cool.

Bobby Mesmer: This is amazing. I love this. Does this make us influencers? We're metal influencers today.

Heidi Ellsworth: We're metal... there we go.

Bobby Mesmer: Is that what we're doing? This is fantastic.

Heidi Ellsworth: We are metal influencing. I'm Heidi Ellsworth, I should say that and you are?

Bobby Mesmer: I am Bobby Mesmer, the CEO of RMG Erectors.

Heidi Ellsworth: Awesome. Okay. So, we have done a lot of MetalCast podcasts and we always have fun with them.

Bobby Mesmer: We do.

Heidi Ellsworth: And so today I want to just go over some of the things that I'm curious about, and what is happening, especially being here at METALCON and really seeing what everybody's talking about and what's happening out there, it's made me have some questions. So, first of all-

Bobby Mesmer: Okay. Well, your experience in this business is so overwhelming sometimes and so the fact that you have questions is, these are going to be hard. I can tell already this is going to be a problem.

Heidi Ellsworth: I don't know if they're going to be hard, but I do think for people who are watching out there and who are like, okay, metal buildings, what is it? What is a pre-engineered metal building? How does it work? Because some people probably are thinking barns, or they're thinking these big industrial things, but there's so much more to it. So, give us what you do. I would love everyone to have a flavor of the type of buildings that you are engineering, that you're building, that you're erecting, talk to us a little bit about that.

Bobby Mesmer: Yeah. So, I think the first thing is to talk about the pre-engineered, that it's an old terminology, right? It's like calling a jacuzzi tub a jacuzzi tub. It's a brand. And so, pre-engineered is not what it used to be anymore. Years ago it was a pre-engineered building because it was literally like a catalog building. You ordered your parts and pieces, and they came out and you put them together and there it was. The technology over the 50 years or more has come so far, and so it's just the terminology has kept itself. So, what they are is, a pre-engineered building starts with its primary steel, which is a built-up steel product, so three plates, as opposed to a hot rolled product, where it's just a single column that is hot rolled, we build up our columns in three plates.

Heidi Ellsworth: It's interesting.

Bobby Mesmer: We use a cold form product for our secondary steel, and then the industry and it's pre-engineered industry, we do a complete building envelope.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yes, yes.

Bobby Mesmer: So, we're doing the metal panels, we're doing the wall insulation, we're doing the roofing and the trim. So, it's a complete product, it's a complete envelope, we're technically what I would like to say is three to four trades in one, because we're iron workers, we're sheet metal workers, we're roofers and we're insulators, because we insulate the building as well.

Heidi Ellsworth: And I am going to say the cladding, right? The panels on the building.

Bobby Mesmer: The wall panels, yep, yep, that's all part of it. So, wall panels internally, wall panels externally and different types of wall panels. You see here at the show, there's so many different types, we talked a lot about it yesterday, so it's really amazing seeing what the technology is bringing. But yeah, all the wall panels. So, that's what encompasses a pre-engineered building, as opposed to just your standard structural construction. And then it's the way it goes together. A pre-engineered building is fully fabricated in a shop, put on a truck and sent out. So, in the field it's erected as an assembly, it's bolt together. There is no welding in the field, everything is bolt and screwed together, which is interesting because structural steel always came out partially fabricated and there would be a lot of welding in the field, but you're starting to see structural steel actually migrate to a point where it's being fully fabricated and being bolt together as well, which is really... So, it's interesting that they're taking some lessons from the pre-engineered world.

Heidi Ellsworth: It is. And you know what? That is really, when we talk about trends in building, that is the trends, is prefabricating things, in... In fact, I was just at a talk about this, where they're talking about would you build a car in your driveway? Why are you building your home in your lot? Why are you building most of it in a factory, where it's better conditions for the workers, where it's better on quality control and overall and then bring it out to the site. So, you've been way ahead of the curve on this.

Bobby Mesmer: Yeah. And it's speed the market too, that's the thing. Fabricating within those conditions puts you in a position to be speed to market. So, you're able to fabricate things faster, where, out in the field, when you got to be welding clips and doing all this stuff and gussets and all that, it creates a situation where you are not able to do it as quickly. There's a lot of labor-intensive, and that also drives cost. So, yeah, so you're happier workers, you're getting a better product, better quality control, for sure, as you said. And then, you're really being able to really turn this over and put a product on the street faster too. And that's what everybody wants nowadays, it's really about that turnover.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. Let's talk a little bit about the architecture, right? Because I think there's a lot of people out there who have an idea of what the architectural look of a metal building is, but that is all different and changed now.

Bobby Mesmer: Changing, drastically.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. Changing. Talk a little bit about that look and how it's fitting into all these different markets.

Bobby Mesmer: So, everybody thinks of the traditional pre-engineered building as, oh, it's just a metal siding, it's the metal roof... Most of the time you don't see the roof, right? It's so high, and who really sees it unless it's a high slope roof? Yes, metal siding is a part of it, the metal siding has come so far in the industry though. There's so many types of panels, so many types of the ribs of types of panels, shadow rib and 7.2 and to create an architectural aesthetic. There is so many architectural elements now too, that you can add over top of the panels.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yes.

Bobby Mesmer: The panel becomes a structural panel when you do it in the right gauge with the right backing of the purlin, and then now you can put a Nichiha panel, which is a fiber cement panel, which is your limestone finishes, your brick finishes, even your siding finishes over top of it.

Heidi Ellsworth: Wow.

Bobby Mesmer: And it's just, the list is endless. If you want a custom rain screen type of panel, you can put that over top of our building. And what it does is, again, it's simplicity, it's speed to market. Because our building provides the backing that's necessary, you laminate this right over the top. Where, in conventional construction, if you can use a pre-engineered building over top of conventional construction, you don't have to frame a wall and then do an OSB siding or a DensGlass siding or anything like that, before then you have to put this product on. So, you're limiting the number of trades too. So, it's trade steps, it's-

Heidi Ellsworth: It makes so much sense.

Bobby Mesmer: ... you're only bringing in the erector that is still encompassing the whole exterior envelope of the building.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. Well, and one of the things, I was talking to Stacey Lynn, the barndominium lady-

Bobby Mesmer: Love her, she's amazing.

Heidi Ellsworth: She's so awesome. She loves you too. And I was talking to her... And this is so obvious. For anybody who's watching out there, who's in construction, what I'm about to say is going to be very obvious. But it really hit a chord with me, is that all of the electrical, all of the wiring, all of the plumbing, everything can already be set. It's set into it, so it's all consistent, whereas in more of a traditional stick frame or other ones, sometimes it moves around and it does different things. Whereas, with steel and the prefabrication and the plans are all there, you're all set. And I was like, yeah, there's so much more to it that I think as normal people don't always understand.

Bobby Mesmer: Yeah, the course of construction and dealing with other trades and the coordination that you have to do with those other trades when it comes to being a general contractor, it can get quite extensive. And so, by working with a pre-engineered company or a barndominium company like them... By the way, I would recommend talking to them, they're amazing, her and Oliver are so awesome people.

Heidi Ellsworth: I know they are. They are.

Bobby Mesmer: But you really can start off your project really well because that coordination really happens from the start. And you can really accomplish a lot of goals that you're trying to set in any application. You want a bathroom over in this location, then yes, you can put a bathroom anywhere in a conventional build, but you can also get quite creative with how you do it and also you can get creative because of the way that our walls have purlin walls, the cavity is bigger, it's more open, you have room for renovation and flexibility down the road, where you're not cutting out studs, worrying about structural things, because our structure is at 30 foot centers.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yes.

Bobby Mesmer: So, it changes the ballgame a little bit.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yes, it totally changes as you go on. And you've been doing a lot. So barndominiums, a lot of residential and we're seeing them, we were talking about it, whole developments are starting to come out, this direction. It's just starting, it's still kind of a new thing. But when you can look at the sustainability, the performance, the durability and the flexibility... It's a lot of illities. But I think we're going to see more of that.

Bobby Mesmer: We are, we are. And there's a new product out, that just came out last year, you're seeing it here at the show a little bit, it's called ACT, it's cold formed buildings, I'm actually going to be getting with Stacey and Oliver and talking with them a little bit about that, because it fits their need and what they're doing. I think it can bring down the cost of a barndominium because you don't have to do it in the heavier steel now, with this cold formed solution.

Heidi Ellsworth: Wow.

Bobby Mesmer: And us, as a company, we're going to market with it, we're putting out a big marketing campaign in conjunction with Cornerstone and their product. So, we're going to be hitting the national market with that, so look out for that, coming soon. And where anybody can come and buy an ACT building, whether it's a garage... And the purpose of that is, it's to compete with the pole barn buildings, the wood structures with the metal panels.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yes, yes.

Bobby Mesmer: But you're getting still a steel building. So, which would you rather have a wood building or a steel building? And you don't have the cost of a pre-engineered building. So, there was a market gap there and we're trying to hit that market gap.

Heidi Ellsworth: I love that.

Bobby Mesmer: And that's going to create versatility. And what it's going to do is in the market that you're talking about, with the residential building, it's going to open that market up a little bit more because of the cost factors, because of speed to market and because of what we can do with those cold formed buildings. So, I think you're going to see that ramp up with these new solutions.

Heidi Ellsworth: Well, it's interesting because I really am looking at this next generation. So, our Gen Z's are coming on and they want to be able to buy homes, they want homes. But they also care a lot about sustainability, they care about what effect they're having on the larger environment and they want something that they can afford, which, that right there is the biggest part. And so, it seems to me like this type of construction is really going to fit that next generation that's coming on, but also have the aesthetics and the cool factor.

Bobby Mesmer: Well, the next generation, they're young and they want something that's more contemporary, they want a contemporary feel. And the steel does that. You're starting to see a lot more homes that are finished concrete floors, and they're not doing the wood floors or the tile floors anymore.

So, you're really seeing a good solution there. And so, metal is becoming the new age of design because of this younger generation, because of what they want. And again, the cost factor is starting to close. Early on, and years ago, to have a standing sea metal roof on your house, you were the rich guy. We talked about this yesterday.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. Exactly.

Bobby Mesmer: So, now, that gap is closing. And what's happening too is the young consumer is starting to see value, the consumer, even just a general consumer now, they want to see value. So, they're willing to pay a little bit more today for a product that's going to last longer down the road. And that's what you're getting in metal construction. The residential construction world of asphalt shingle, and all that, great products, I'm not going to say that they're not, but they can't compete with metal in longevity and how it performs and what it can do for you.

Heidi Ellsworth: And we talked about this yesterday too, also with the extreme weather and that we're seeing so much extreme, from wildfires, to hurricanes, to hail... It's just those storms are, I was just talking to somebody from Tampa and their house is gone, they had shingles, they flew off, water came in, it's kind of done. And I know there's a lot of really good asphalt shingles out there too, but I think with all the studies and everything we're seeing, we're going to just see this incredible lift in metal. I want to shift just a little bit to more of an international look too, because it's so fun that you do buildings all over the world. So, what are some of the things you're seeing on an international level? Is it a lot different than the US, or are you seeing some of the same trends?

Bobby Mesmer: It's very different than the US, it really is. You talk about the cold formed buildings, cold formed buildings have been being built in Australia for years. They know, they're very good at the market. So, we're looking at what they have done over the years and we're trying to bring what they have done here to the United States.

Heidi Ellsworth: Nice.

Bobby Mesmer: So, we're using them as an example. Insulated metal panels have been used in Europe for decades. Decades even before the United States was used in them. So, there's pre-engineered buildings in all of Central America, South America, Africa, pre-engineered buildings are so relevant all over the world. And so, really, it's really a new technology here in the United States. Yeah, 50 years, 60 years, but it's still relatively new in comparison. Everybody else has embraced it a little bit more. So, we're seeing a big push around the world for this. We recently opened up our office in Costa Rica, that's an engineering office for us-

Heidi Ellsworth: That's awesome.

Bobby Mesmer: ... and we're moving into all of Central America, and with a very hard push into Central America, because of the need that's down there. And so, we see it and we want to be a part of it and help it be done right. We look at our industry and we respect our industry, and we really want it to be a worldwide respect, that we have for it, not just the US basis. And so, we want to move into those markets, including Canada and on, say, look, we're here to help kick this off the right way. Do they already exist down there? Yes, we're not the first ones. But they need somebody who can come in and take charge a little bit, and I think we're capable of that.

Heidi Ellsworth: And are you mostly seeing in a lot of these structures that you're doing internationally, all industrial, commercial, what are some of the niches that you're going into?

Bobby Mesmer: Yeah, mainly industrial, commercial, they haven't taken on to the residential piece of it yet, because Central American normally builds mostly with masonry with their houses in the residential market, I'm not sure what that reason is. Obviously on some coastlines it makes sense, kind of like what they do in Florida, with building houses out of masonry and all. But it's mainly industrial, it's manufacturing, it's a lot of heavy commercial is what we're seeing. And they get it, they like that speed to market.

Heidi Ellsworth: It makes sense.

Bobby Mesmer: Yeah.

Heidi Ellsworth: It makes total sense. Okay, let's talk technology.

Bobby Mesmer: Ah okay.

Heidi Ellsworth: I love technology. And so, I'm really curious, in your business, where are you at software-wise? What's your tech stack? What are some of the things that you have really seen that have changed your business with technology, whether that's in the office and with your software and stuff or we talked about a little bit yesterday, in the field with the tools and where they're going?

Bobby Mesmer: Well, it's... So, technology has really helped every business across the globe. And what's interesting though is in the construction industry, technology has come a long way over the last 20 years with the issuance of project management programs, companies like Procore, that are out there, great program, but what's interesting is when you get down to my niche business, what is very interesting is running an erection company, there is no good program out there to help with erection.

Heidi Ellsworth: Wow.

Bobby Mesmer: And I find that to be interesting.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. Very.

Bobby Mesmer: So, for us, what we have done is, is we have created our own technology, so we use Excel and we create the workbooks. So, we're not a dinosaur in Excel, we bring in Excel experts, we create the workbooks that we need to create and they automate. So, it's kind of like our own technology inside.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. And that's where a lot of technology start, is with the contractors, knowing what you need and building it that way.

Bobby Mesmer: Correct. Well, and I think that nobody's really tapped into our segment yet, because we're such a niche segment. You go out there and you Google, you'll find a million programs for electricians and even roofing companies and all that, you'll find a ton of them.

Heidi Ellsworth: A ton.

Bobby Mesmer: There is none in my particular segment. So, the technology from an erection standpoint, we've had to take all the different types of segments and bring them all together to make them what we want it to be and operate it and it's kind of like our own program.

Heidi Ellsworth: That's really interesting.

Bobby Mesmer: But outside of that, the technology out in the field goes to the type of equipment that we're using. Vacuum lifts, the technology on them has come such a long way, that the vacuum lifts that we use to raise IMP panels for the walls, under IMP roof panels, down to even just the drills... We talked a little bit about this yesterday, was the drills that we use. The drills that we use are not the drills that you get from Home Depot, they look like it, but they are not. But the technology in them is truly amazing, and I know this from just using drills and being in construction for all these years, I pick up some of these drills and I'm like, wow, they're lightweight, but they're hugely impactful, they run certain cycles.

And the manufacturers have become so well in their technology, and so secure in what they're providing... We use Milwaukee, we love Milwaukee, so I'll give a Milwaukee pitch.

Heidi Ellsworth: Good.

Bobby Mesmer: Hey, Milwaukee reps, show me some love, please.

Heidi Ellsworth: There you go. Right there.

Bobby Mesmer: But we use Milwaukee stuff mostly, and Milwaukee is so trustful in what they provide, that when it burns out, you send it, they repair it and send it back.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah, wow.

Bobby Mesmer: And that's what they do.

Heidi Ellsworth: That's amazing.

Bobby Mesmer: And so that's technology in my mind, and that's useful because we go through those things, the life cycle of a drill, of a $500 drill, is probably, it's probably two months before it has to be rebuilt.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. Wow.

Bobby Mesmer: But they're doing better with the technology to make that last longer.

Heidi Ellsworth: Longer. Because you need that. And, like you said yesterday, all battery operated.

Bobby Mesmer: All battery operated. So, the technology in that. Batteries, I used to go through a battery an hour, batteries now last several hours. So, we're seeing it from that standpoint, obviously the iPad technology, all the touch technology, getting plans out to the field, getting changes out to the field. So, we utilize that kind of software to the foreman. And so, it plays a big part in what you're doing, if you're doing it. You can either operate like a dinosaur or you can operate in the world, and unfortunately you might have to migrate. A lot of people get lazy with it, and they're like, especially to smaller contractors, because they want to take the position like, oh, I don't have the time to do it. Look, if it helps your company be more efficient, then you got to make the time to automate something, even if that means you're doing it in Excel.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. I agree. I agree. Those automations, we're doing the exact same things, we're looking for it all the time. So, it doesn't matter what business you're in, it's like, how are you allowing your team, your crew members, to do the best job the easiest way with automation. Because there's definitely not... There is a labor shortage.

Bobby Mesmer: Huge.

Heidi Ellsworth: And so, you need to use every... And I've heard this, Bobby and I think it's really interesting, is I hear people, I was just in a panel on this, where they were like, well, all this technology, robotics, all this kind of stuff is going to take jobs away. I just don't see that, it seems like we don't have enough people to do the job, so the more we can automate the better.

Bobby Mesmer: So, I think it's a balance. I think the more that we can automate, the better, but it doesn't take jobs away because there's still things that the robots simply can't do.

Heidi Ellsworth: True.

Bobby Mesmer: Even in the manufacturing side of it. That the touch of a human needs to still do. So, I don't care what type of automation you're doing, you still need the jobs inside the manufacturing facilities. I know that. I'm not a manufacturer, but I do know that and I've talked to people who have said the same thing. But there's plenty of jobs out there, I think it comes down to what people truly want to do. What are they going after?

Heidi Ellsworth: Right.

Bobby Mesmer: I know for us, we're constantly hiring and we have so much to build. I could hire 100 qualified people tomorrow and put them to work, without a problem. But the problem is there's not enough education out there for people to come out and say, oh, well, how do I do this job? Or do I really want to do this job?

Heidi Ellsworth: True.

Bobby Mesmer: Or with some of the younger generation, oh, I don't want to work construction, it's too hard. Well, yeah, but it's fulfilling and you can make good money. Oh, there's no money in construction... Yeah, it is, what did I tell you yesterday? My average employee makes somewhere between 100 and $150,000 a year in the field.

Heidi Ellsworth: Wow. That's-

Bobby Mesmer: That's a lot of money. And so, you can go get your four-year degree in business and come out and make $50,000 a year and have all the debt or you can come to work for us, start at $25 an hour, with zero experience and in a couple of years be averaging $100,000 a year. You're way ahead of the curve. And you learn a trade, and you work with your hands and you see a different part of the country all the time, because you're traveling. And so, the life experience there is just even, the quality of life, the life experience is so great and it starts with educating people in high school.

Everybody wants to talk to everybody when they're already in college, taking on the debt, we stopped talking to kids in high school. The kids in high school need to be talked about and have the option. We took away all the trades, we took away the wood shops and the-

Heidi Ellsworth: We did.

Bobby Mesmer: ... and all the auto shops, and the [inaudible 00:22:13] and we got rid of all the hands-on trades and then we all stand back and look and say, oh, well, we have a skilled labor deficit. Well, geez, I wonder why everybody.

Heidi Ellsworth: I know. I know. We've created this.

Bobby Mesmer: We did.

Heidi Ellsworth: That and we're aging out. [inaudible 00:22:27] our population is an aging population, so.

Bobby Mesmer: I'm going backwards. What are you talking about? I'm 29 all over again.

Heidi Ellsworth: Okay, I like it. Me too. I'm going to go with you. So yeah, agree 100% and I think that message and this is what we talk about all the time, we want to get out there and I think it has to start even younger. I think it needs to start in middle school and why don't we have books that we're reading to our kids... And we actually do in roofing, we have some of those books. But my mom, my dad, they're in roofing. Those kind of things that show the respect of the industry, or you are building and the people who work with you, are building amazing structures-

Bobby Mesmer: Every day.

Heidi Ellsworth: ... that are going to do amazing things, that is such a pride.

Bobby Mesmer: It's gratifying. You show up, and there's nothing there, you leave and there's something there.

Heidi Ellsworth: [inaudible 00:23:19].

Bobby Mesmer: How much more gratifying is that? You created something.

Heidi Ellsworth: Right.

Bobby Mesmer: And I feel like that's really important to anybody. I feel like that's what everybody inherently wants, they want to be a part of something bigger, they want to be a part of something where they're like, I created something. Well, the trades allow you to really stand back and be like, you know what? I did that. And I did something that most people can't do.

Heidi Ellsworth: Right, right. And to learn that. Okay, so I just love these conversations, they always go so fast. But one of the things I want to really talk about is 2025. And really maybe just starting, you already mentioned the product ACT, that you're working with, what are some of the other, without giving away any secret sauce or trade secrets, what are some of the things you're seeing here from... I know we were talking earlier about metal forming machines. What are some of the things that gets you excited, with new initiatives, new products, new machinery, that you're looking at for 2025?

Bobby Mesmer: I think from a manufacturing standpoint, it's the technology of the machines that we're seeing and their capabilities and what they're able to do. So, I think that and the constant enhancement that these manufacturers are doing, they're constantly enhancing to produce a better product. And that's important, everybody looks at a piece of trim and they're like, oh, it's just a piece of trim. I have to look at a piece of trim and that thing has to be good, and precise and not oil canned... I look at it differently. So, they're really refining the process is what they're doing. So, that I love.

Heidi Ellsworth: I love that.

Bobby Mesmer: The technology just in the metals too. What they're doing in the metal coatings is amazing.

Heidi Ellsworth: Oh yeah.

Bobby Mesmer: The whole printing on metal now, we talked a little bit about that-

Heidi Ellsworth: I know, I love that.

Bobby Mesmer: ... with the, wait, what was it, the camouflage colors and all?

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. I'm like, where do you use that?

Bobby Mesmer: Exactly. Right.

Heidi Ellsworth: I'm like, oh, duh. Okay. There's going to be a lot of buildings and a lot of dear things out there. Whatever they're called.

Bobby Mesmer: You're going to see a lot of backyard buildings that are going to have camouflage wet panels on it soon.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yes, you are.

Bobby Mesmer: Billy Bob in the back over there. He's going to be working on his truck in a camouflage building is what we're going to end up seeing.

Heidi Ellsworth: It's going to be all camouflage.

Bobby Mesmer: Right.

Heidi Ellsworth: And the wood grains, I think, are spectacular.

Bobby Mesmer: Yeah, amazing.

Heidi Ellsworth: And even some of the shiplap.

Bobby Mesmer: Yep. It's amazing. You can't even tell until you walk up on it and you actually touch and feel it. And so, yeah, I think the coating technologies are coming so far. Companies like Sherwin-Williams, who does it, they do an amazing job already and then you see some of the stuff that they're presenting here and I'm like, wow. And I have so many questions. And I'm not even a metals guy, I put the stuff together, but I'm not even a metals guy and I'm like, I have so many questions about this.

Heidi Ellsworth: I'm excited. Yeah.

Bobby Mesmer: Please explain this to me. How does it do that?

Heidi Ellsworth: Did you see the watts removal over in Sherwin-Williams?

Bobby Mesmer: No.

Heidi Ellsworth: They actually have some new, it's not totally new, it's been on the market for quite a while, but it takes off graffiti, it cleans off rust, it cleans off organic matter.

Bobby Mesmer: Love that.

Heidi Ellsworth: And you can actually just spray it. So, yeah, sorry, that was one that I got excited about too.

Bobby Mesmer: No, I love it. There's a lot of communities that could use that.

Heidi Ellsworth: Oh yeah, right now.

Bobby Mesmer: For sure.

Heidi Ellsworth: Big time.

Bobby Mesmer: But I think that technology and what we're seeing there, I think is, that's all part of it. And then, just the technology too, with the new buildings, the cold formed buildings, that technology, who would've thought? And so, you see in the industry constantly moving, which is what's exciting.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yes.

Bobby Mesmer: That constant move forward, that constant betterment. For a while there, there was a little bit of stagnation and I remember about 10 years ago, for a couple years, it wasn't as progressive as it is right now.

Heidi Ellsworth: It's true.

Bobby Mesmer: And there's a lot of progressiveness in this business, and what I'm seeing here at the show and it's really got me really excited to be a part of it and to be like, wow, you know what? We could use that. We could do this.

Heidi Ellsworth: Right.

Bobby Mesmer: I said to my project managers here, I'm like, you need to go around and get all information from as many people as you can-

Heidi Ellsworth: Yes, so good.

Bobby Mesmer: ... because we want to consider some of this stuff.

Heidi Ellsworth: Well, and that's really the big thing, is being that thought leader, right? In your market, you already are, you're the largest, but you're also that thought leader that is saying, hey, we're not standing still, we are moving forward, we're bringing new technologies, new architecture, new ways of looking at it. And I think it's taken, and I'm a little prejudiced here, but I think it's taken people like you, Bobby and other folks that I've seen, who are really willing to talk about doing things different. And there was a, my dad was a general contractor, your dad was a contractor, right? And we know, it was just the good old boys, that's kind of changed.

Bobby Mesmer: Yeah. It has changed. And look, everybody still stays status quo and only a very few amount of people really push themselves to be progressive. But being progressive is what changes the market.

Heidi Ellsworth: It does.

Bobby Mesmer: But being progressive also too, in my opinion, being a visionary and being progressive, I hope that I inspire other contractors, who look at me and say, wow, I want to keep up with him with that. He did it, I can do it. Because that's what I did, I looked at people and said, hey, if they're doing that, why can't I do that? So, I'm hoping that I'm following, that I'm giving the right leadership in that progressiveness. And I'm okay with being the first one to step out and do things, I really am. I'm willing to take that risk. But if it helps inspire somebody else to say, yeah, I want to do that too and I want to see his model and I want to see what he's doing, I'm okay with that. Because I love the competition too, so bring it on. Let's go.

Heidi Ellsworth: As you know, that's how we feel here, at the MetalCoffeeShop, we want to push that edge, but we also want to have great celebration and respect for the trades and all the history that's gone into it, but where are we going next? And we love to be on that front edge of saying, here's what's next, here's how we're going to do things that that next generation, like we talked about, are demanding. Right? They're demanding more sustainability, for us to think about the environment, affordability.

Bobby Mesmer: Affordability, yeah.

Heidi Ellsworth: Right? We want homeowners. And so, I just think it's awesome, I'm very excited for the future, in 2025.

Bobby Mesmer: Yeah, this is great. Yeah, we're excited, we are too. 2025... Look, 2024 was okay, it was flat.

Heidi Ellsworth: Flat.Yeah.

Bobby Mesmer: We have an election coming up in, what, five days here now? Something like that.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yes.

Bobby Mesmer: Depending on how that goes, it's going to tell what's going to happen. Either we're going to be flat next year or we're going to start to see the ramp up of good progressiveness. Interest rates need to continue to come down so people start buying again, and start trying to boost up, we got to get inflation under control. So, there's a lot that can happen in 2025, nobody has the crystal ball to see what's going to happen, but hopefully it's all in the uptick and we're hoping for a good year.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. I just feel like there's a little bit of, what would you call it? Backlog or pent-up demand, because unfortunately we've had a lot of messaging that's hard to live with and makes people a little scared, but that's going to change. And with interest rates, I agree 100%, interest rates coming down, a more positive messaging that's going out there, things will come around.

Bobby Mesmer: We have several projects that are on hold, they won't pull the trigger on contracts until January. They're waiting to see what's going to happen.

Heidi Ellsworth: They're waiting.

Bobby Mesmer: They're just waiting. And these are big projects. So, obviously because of that, we know what they're hoping for, we're hoping for the same kind of thing, but at the end of the day, we'll see what happens. And we'll make the best of it. The end industry, nothing's going to die, it's not going to be the end of the world, oh my God, everybody lock down, the purge is happening. We're not dealing with that.

Heidi Ellsworth: No.

Bobby Mesmer: But at the same time, we have to make all the best of it and no matter which way it goes and I think the industry is moving in the right direction. This show is good Proof of that.

Heidi Ellsworth: It's great. It is. It really is. And you know what? Everybody needs shelter.

Bobby Mesmer: Absolutely.

Heidi Ellsworth: At the end of the day, everybody needs shelter.

Bobby Mesmer: Absolutely.

Heidi Ellsworth: So, we're in a great industry, great history. Bobby, thank you as always.

Bobby Mesmer: Heidi, thank you so much.

Heidi Ellsworth: Just spectacular.

Bobby Mesmer: Yeah, thank you for having me. This has been great.

Heidi Ellsworth: It's so fun.

Bobby Mesmer: Love seeing you in person.

Heidi Ellsworth: I know.

Bobby Mesmer: We need to do this more.

Heidi Ellsworth: We're going to do this more.

Bobby Mesmer: Absolutely.

Heidi Ellsworth: I tell you, in fact, I want everybody to stay tuned to MetalCoffeeShop because Bobby, this year, is already our influencer on MetalCoffeeShop, we're going to be doing more next year. So, more influencing, more thought leadership, more podcasts, so that we can really talk about what's happening and keep everybody at that front edge, so that the industry all rises together.

Bobby Mesmer: Looking forward to, Heidi.

Heidi Ellsworth: I love it. Thank you.

Bobby Mesmer: Thank you so much.

Outro: Thank you. Thank you for this live Insta on Instagram, thank you everybody for watching. This is MetalCast, be sure to check out all of our MetalCasts on the MetalCoffeeShop, under the navigation for Read, listen, Watch or on your favorite podcast channel, be sure to subscribe and set those notifications so you don't miss a single show. Also, YouTube. be sure to ring that bell. And we'll see you next time on MetalCast.