Coffee Conversations LIVE From METALCON 2023! Sponsored by New Tech Machinery - PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with Terry McGuire of New Tech Machinery, Amanda Nordmeyer of Sherwin-Williams Coil Coatings and Michelle Kettering with LTD Exteriors. You can read the interview below, listen to the podcast or watch the webinar.

Terry Mcguire: Come over there five times.

Heidi Ellsworth: Hello and welcome back. We are here with Live Coffee Conversations, sponsored by New Tech Machinery. We are on the sound stage at MetalCon. This is going to be a great panel, a great Coffee Conversations, and I'm so glad you're all here with us. And I'm really excited for this panel here. Welcome and thank you.

Amanda Nordmeyer: Thank you

Terry Mcguire: Thank you.

Heidi Ellsworth: So we are going to start out, we want to talk about what's happening in metal, what's happening in MetalCon. Overall, we've got a lot of great topics here. And so we're going to start out with the introductions. I'm going to start here with Terry. And first I'm going to say, Terry, thank you so much for sponsoring the sound stage with New Tech Machinery

Terry Mcguire: Well, thank you for allowing us to sponsor. We really appreciate what you do. And what you bring to the industry is great, so we're glad to do it. But I hope we can do it again next year. I was working you for that.

Heidi Ellsworth: You're working for it. Thank you.

Terry Mcguire: Yes.

Heidi Ellsworth: Okay. Tell everybody, I would love for you to introduce yourself and tell everybody a little bit about New Tech Machinery.

Terry Mcguire: Yeah. So again, my name is Terry McGuire. I'm the Vice President of New Tech Machinery. I've been with the company now about two and a half years, a little under two and a half years. As you know, a lot of great things happening with New Tech right now. Very exciting changes. Had the opportunity to bring the board and batten with us to this show.

Heidi Ellsworth: I'm excited about that.

Terry Mcguire: And we're running it over there. It's drawn a lot of enthusiasm and excitement. We're very excited about that. And as I start to get my feet under me, there's some really great, exciting things to come. So I'm looking forward to some shows.

Heidi Ellsworth: We want to hear it first.

Terry Mcguire: Yeah, maybe '24. I'll keep you in mind. So all really great. New Tech Machinery is really the leader in portable rollforming, as you know. We have a lot of great machinery. We have a lot of great training. We have a lot of YouTube information about how to get into the business, how to run the machines, how to service the machines. We regionally can support you anywhere in the United States and, really, in the world. Just a really great company, a high quality machine and just a lot of exciting things going on for us right now.

Heidi Ellsworth: We've had a couple of your folks, including Alex, talking about the videos on your sound stage this morning. And it is, what you said about the how-tos and the videos and the customer service, and just the people of New Tech Machinery are so awesome.

Terry Mcguire: Yeah, Alex is great. Having the ability to have marketing people and content writers really allows us to bring things to bear that other people can't. New Tech really has been kind of on the leading edge of that when other people weren't doing it. I mean, if you walk around the show now, everybody's doing that. And that's great, the more we can support, the better off we're all going to be. But New Tech certainly was a leader in that and we're very excited about that, and we continue to look at it and say, "Hey, what else can we do? What can we bring that's new or different that other people aren't?" But Alex has been a great addition. Funny thing about Alex is he just recently got his drone pilot license, so we can do some more drone footage. But New Tech Machinery manufacturing is in Aurora, which is next to Buckley Space Force. And so you have to get quite a bit of approval before you can fly over there. So we're going to be flying inside the building, I think more than we're going to be flying outside the building.

Heidi Ellsworth: And maybe some of those beautiful projects as they're forming right there at the project.

Terry Mcguire: Correct. And he went to North Carolina.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah, I just heard that.

Terry Mcguire: And he did some footage there that turned out really great of a great project. And we really plan on using his hard-earned license in the next couple of years and see what neat, interesting things we can come up with.

Heidi Ellsworth: That's excellent. And you know, Alex and Megan were talking, so you never know what may happen. There you go. All the video back and forth.

Terry Mcguire: Maybe he can do a music video.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yes.

Terry Mcguire: Really help her along her way.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yes. There you go. There you go. I love it. Okay, Amanda, I would love for you to introduce yourself. But first of all, I want to say thank you because Sherwin-Williams is a sponsor of Metal Coffee Shop. And thank you so much. So introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about Sherwin-Williams.

Amanda Nordmeyer: All right. Good afternoon. Thank you for having me. I'm Amanda Nordmeyer with Sherwin-Williams Coil Coatings. So we're a global leader in coil coatings. And been with the company going on 20 years. So I've been doing this for a little bit. Not something I thought I would do, but I love every minute of it. It's a great team.

Heidi Ellsworth: You've just come to coil coatings in the last, what is it, year, two years?

Amanda Nordmeyer: Most of my career's on the coil side.

Heidi Ellsworth: But I mean working with you and I.

Amanda Nordmeyer: Yes, you and I have been the last couple of years working with-

Heidi Ellsworth: I'm sorry. It's all about me. So, just love working with you, and we've been having so much fun, doing everything with MetalVue and all of the projects.

Amanda Nordmeyer: Yeah. The collaboration and the education has been outstanding.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah, it's very fun. So thank you for being here today.

Amanda Nordmeyer: Thank you.

Heidi Ellsworth: And if you were hopefully reading our ads and the emails and everything, you would've thought that Mark McDonald was going to be here. But we're really secretly very excited that we got Amanda. So sorry, Mark.

Amanda Nordmeyer: Thank you.

Terry Mcguire: She's much prettier than Mark. I, for one, am okay with it.

Heidi Ellsworth: Did you cause Mark not to appear today? Is this the thing? Now we know. Now we know. Okay. Michelle, this is your second appearance today on the sound stage.

Michelle Kettering: So I get a pass, right?

Heidi Ellsworth: No one gets to leave. But I would love for you to introduce yourself and tell us about your company.

Michelle Kettering: So Michelle Kettering with LTD Exteriors, we're based out of North Carolina, and we specialize in slate and tile roofs. But we do copper work, so that is how we ended up here.

Heidi Ellsworth: And what are you doing here at the show?

Michelle Kettering: So Sheridan Metal Resources has recruited me to assist in the Training Zone, sponsored by Sherwin-Williams.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yes, yes.

Michelle Kettering: And so we have set up mock-ups, different levels and different materials that we are showcasing the installs throughout the day. We're inviting people to stop in our booth, feel the tools that we have, get to use them, try them out, ask questions. Just a very organic type of environment, just come on in and get a feel for things and lose some of the intimidation factor.

Heidi Ellsworth: It's one of the hits of the show.

Michelle Kettering: It is.

Heidi Ellsworth: And that's the thing. And I think John said this morning, eight different companies or profiles, all with Sherwin-Williams [inaudible 00:06:43]. So we have some cool stuff going on over there. So we are going to talk about all of this. And you may hear some sounds because we're live and we're here at the show. But let's start out with what you all are seeing, highlight wise. I know we're only a day and a half into the show, but I'd just like to hear what you're kind of seeing and what you would recommend people to be kind of aware of. So what are you hearing?

Terry Mcguire: The first thing that I saw and continues to amaze me is how busy we were at the New Tech booth. The showing was incredible for about four hours yesterday, we were running around like chickens with our heads cut off. A lot of interest. As I noted a minute ago, we had the board and batten running over there, and there was a lot of interest in seeing it and really looking at the angles of the board and batten to make sure it was a 90 and it was crisp and clean. So just a lot of excitement. And we've actually sold a lot of machines already.

Heidi Ellsworth: That's what we heard. That's great.

Terry Mcguire: We don't come to the shows to sell machines. We generally come to build relationships, to educate, to create relationships that are going to work out for us down the road. But this show has been completely different. We've sold the machine that's there. We've sold machines that are going to be at other shows, I won't mention them here. And so it's really been a great two days, day and a half for us. A lot of excitement. So we hope to continue that and continue to bring great products to market so that we can keep our booth filled like this.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yes, it's working.

Terry Mcguire: Yeah, it's working. It's definitely working. And that is something that we're really proud of. And we really appreciate the people who are NTM fans. We do a lot to make sure that nobody gets hung out to dry. That if there's any issues, and there will be issues, machinery is like that, that we're going to take care of you. A lot of them even have access to me. I'm always like, "Hey, if there's a problem or there's something you're uncomfortable about, please call me." So even though we're a big company, there's not this level of bureaucracy where we can't get stuff done.

Heidi Ellsworth: That's so nice.

Terry Mcguire: Yeah, it's so nice. And we want to keep it that way and we want to keep the personal relationships. And our goal is for someone to come buy the machine, be successful with it and want to buy another. This is not fly by night, buy one, hey, if it doesn't work for you, sorry. We want them to be successful. We help them with the business side of it as well. And we certainly help them with the training side of it and the understanding side of it so that they will come back and buy another machine.

Heidi Ellsworth: So important.

Terry Mcguire: It's been a great show.

Heidi Ellsworth: So important. That's what it's all about. I'm so glad. Amanda, what are you seeing in the Sherwin-Williams booth over there? What are people talking about? What are some of the highlights?

Amanda Nordmeyer: A couple of the big ones. Of course, we already talked about the Training Zone, right?

Heidi Ellsworth: Yes.

Amanda Nordmeyer: So getting that installation, that's been a huge thing. So seeing a lot of traffic through there. A lot of the education opportunities too. So we have some folks talking about color trends and what that's doing in the industry. In our booth we have the different effects, what things are looking like.

Heidi Ellsworth: So cool.

Amanda Nordmeyer: So it's really taken a difference with the attendance as well. And I've seen a lot of great-

Heidi Ellsworth: The MetalVue folks coming by. I mean, we've been seeing that here, that contractors are so interested, engaged in MetalVue, along with all the vendors that are here. And so I've been hearing some buzz around that.

Amanda Nordmeyer: Absolutely.

Heidi Ellsworth: So good. Okay. What are you, Michelle, from a contractor standpoint? I know you got the Training Zone going. Have you had any chance to walk around?

Michelle Kettering: No. It's a good problem to have.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yes.

Michelle Kettering: We've had a very, very busy booth. A lot of people are excited about training, and that's exciting because the labor shortage is a real thing that we're all dealing with. And so to know that people are interested in training and wanting to do the applications correctly. That is exciting.

Heidi Ellsworth: And this is the first time that the Training Zone has been here, Sherwin-Williams, that we've all kind of had our fingers in it to get it up and going. And I think it's just very cool that we are getting hands on and getting more people. And I'm hoping the word spreads.

Terry Mcguire: And I'm going to have to get down there and see, because I've been busy too and I haven't had much time to wander. So I'm going to wander down there before this is over.

Michelle Kettering: Yeah, please do.

Heidi Ellsworth: Well, and it kind of leads me to what are some of the trends? What do you think people coming to the show, what are they looking for? And what are some of the trends that are trending in metal, and I have to say, board and bat?

Terry Mcguire: Yeah, the board and bat. For us it's the board and batten, and it's the Sherwin-Williams colors. It's the things that you can do on the metal now that really drive that board and batten to be successful. Things that weren't even around two, three years ago. But the board and batten, we knew it was going to be big. We knew that there was a lot of excitement around it, but we never realized how much. And I actually started a list, which really didn't make a lot of sense, but I started this list of people who wanted it and I said, "Hey, I don't have it. We're working on it, but I'll write your name down." And that turned into a list that I wish I'd never partook in because the list got so long and other people were like, "I thought I was eighth." And then there were people outside of me that had their own personal lists.

So the board and batten, again, has just been really a great product for us. And it's a great way for the people that own our machines to go out and find work. There are a lot of people that want board and batten. That barndominium, that barn look, that farm look is really hot right now. And the ability to do it in metal and do it in a portable way is just something that people are very excited about.

Heidi Ellsworth: I love the barndominiums. I just think it's the coolest thing ever. We were talking with Smart Build, who's part of the MetalVue program and they were talking about the easy design, and really the technology that's heavy behind that now. And then when you put the portable machines, it is just kind of starting to take away some of the pain, and also helping with the labor shortages we talked about.

Terry Mcguire: A hundred percent. Definitely. We see that as something that's going to continue to be a struggle for people, and it keeps them from buying a second and third machines. So finding ways to simplify the machine, to add notching to the machine, to do things to drop labor is something that NTM will continue to concentrate on.

Heidi Ellsworth: Automation.

Terry Mcguire: Automation.

Heidi Ellsworth: Automation, that's the word. What are you seeing, trend-wise? I mean, we had our great RLWN webinar on your FUSE report and the color trends. And I've just been hearing everybody talk about it, so I'd love to hear more about what you're hearing over there.

Amanda Nordmeyer: So metal in general, we're seeing growth in metal, sustainability, durability, all of the things that come with metal. But just from a trend standpoint, color-wise, your low gloss, naturals, really seeing all of those taking off. Goes into your barndominiums, right, and what they're thinking, and those available colors that go with that to really tie it back to nature and what people are looking for.

Heidi Ellsworth: I've been personally kind of shocked, but I shouldn't be, about the growth of the black.

Amanda Nordmeyer: Yes.

Heidi Ellsworth: How much black roofing there is.

Amanda Nordmeyer: Yeah. And we'll continue to trend that way. You see the matte black and some navies, and they're really staying that way.

Heidi Ellsworth: It's just beautiful. It's beautiful, because then you can do so much fun things with the siding and the exteriors. And again, the visualizations of Renoworks where you can kind of see that and put everything together has made it, I don't know, that really people are being able to be more artists.

Amanda Nordmeyer: Yes, they get to put their personality into it, in what they want to see.

Heidi Ellsworth: I know, it's so good. Michelle, what are you seeing? From a contractor standpoint, what do you want?

Michelle Kettering: Well, that's a good question. But again, because I'm not too much in the metal, it's a difficult one to answer. I will say what we have seen at our booth, we have a lot of people coming by asking for custom tools. They have certain problems that they're running into and they're coming, they're looking at what we have showcased with Sheridan Tools and they're saying, "Okay, but I needed to do this." And so that was interesting to hear. And it was also people from other countries that were coming and asking. They don't have distributors that are selling these tools in their locations. So that was interesting. Definitely not something I expected to find in our booth.

Heidi Ellsworth: Right. As people are coming through. And I know over there in the booth you have a lot of different profiles and different types. I mean, the Diamond is pretty dang cool. And as you're kind of looking at that, I know we talked about this this morning, but you're looking at adding even more metal to your business for your customers. What are some of the things that are kind of piquing your interest of wanting to add?

Michelle Kettering: Definitely the Diamond. That was probably by far my favorite, just the ease of the installation. I'm being trained on how to install this as we're doing the Training Zone. So this has been really nice to learn about all these different products that I had no idea were out there. We're finding a lot of people coming by and discovering products that they also did not realize were out there. So that has been probably one of the highlights of our booth as well. But the Diamond is definitely by far my favorite.

Heidi Ellsworth: I think it's very, very cool. You can find it, the company's name is Diamond, and it's out of Canada.

Michelle Kettering: Yes, it is out of Canada. And I don't remember, we pulled up the website yesterday. But I'll get that to you so you can put that on.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah, we'll get that out there. Okay. We know what's happening right now. I would like to kind of talk about 2024, because I always like to be in the know. So what, Terry, are you seeing as some of the trends but also new products, things that you're doing to work with contractors, because you are really hearing the voice of the customer and delivering? What are some of the things we should be looking at for 2024?

Terry Mcguire: Yeah, I mean we certainly are expecting 2024 to be another stellar year. We're very excited about where we're ending up in '23, and expect '24 to start where '23 ended. Right now, from an NTM standpoint or a rollforming standpoint, there's just a lot of effort in what we spoke about a few minutes ago, and creating as much automation in the machine as possible and trying to drive the complexity out of rollforming as much as possible, simplification of the controllers of the notching, things that we can do that you don't have to add labor at the end of the machine or the exit of the machine to do so. I think we're really just going to concentrate on that into 2024. I do believe that you'll see some new machinery coming out of New Tech. I'm not exactly sure. I want to say it'll be 2024, but that is something that we are considering, and looking at other applications of what can be done with rollforming. That's very exciting.

Heidi Ellsworth: That's exciting. That's exciting because we keep seeing, metal just keeps growing. I mean, we know from the MRA report that they did again through Dives this year that we're up to 18%, right? 18% market share residentially. And that's only going to grow.

Terry Mcguire: It's only going to grow. And the HOAs are starting to accept that people are starting to accept it. And the more people that accept it and the HOAs that accept it, we're going to be able to get into these markets. And it only makes sense because it's durable, it's sustainable, it has a lot of options. It lasts forever. And that's a big deal.

Heidi Ellsworth: Sustainability is big.

Terry Mcguire: It's a big thing. So I think that we've just touched the surface. And being more new to this than they are, I'm really excited to be here at this time because I know this isn't where we were 10 years ago. And so to see what can happen in the next 10 years is going to be a great ride.

Heidi Ellsworth: I think so too. And that really takes us to that technology. And as we're looking into 2024, Amanda, I would love to have you kind of talk about the partnerships Sherwin-Williams has developed and the MetalVue program, all the technology and now these new types of contractors coming in and selling metal, it's phenomenal.

Amanda Nordmeyer: Well, because they're having the opportunity to do something they haven't done before. So the MetalVue program, by growing those partnerships and making those links to show how that can grow the industry as a whole. So everybody benefits from that. And our Roofing Passport, having the tools to feed into that to drive that technology to make it easier to do biz and make it more efficient to do that. So yeah, the partnerships with MetalVue have been huge and continue to grow.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah, they continue to grow. I mean, EagleView was just here a minute ago before we came on. And what they're doing now with the ability to capture the imagery to such precise measurements that you can cut from it and going into the machinery, going into the programs. Contractors now don't have to, I'm sorry, Michelle, but they don't have to learn everything about estimating because of some of these technologies that is really starting to change how the people, the entry level, the barriers to entry.

Amanda Nordmeyer: Exactly. And we have the dealer portal that went live as well now. So training and being able to see all of the different pieces and the different partnerships is bringing value to the industry as well.

Heidi Ellsworth: And how it can grow your business.

Amanda Nordmeyer: Yeah.

Heidi Ellsworth: So 2024, I know you have some big projects coming up, I'm always curious from a regional basis, North Carolina, what you're seeing in the market there. And what is LTD kind of looking forward to next year?

Michelle Kettering: So we have noticed that metal is becoming increasingly the choice for homeowners in our area, which is part of the reason why we're looking at adding metal to what we installed. I do foresee it continuing to trend in our area, the durability and all of that. It's proving to be something that people are definitely interested in in our area.

Heidi Ellsworth: And as you start bringing it, the consumer's asking for it, I think that's why the training has exploded so much. It's like the consumers, this is really being driven from a consumer base.

Michelle Kettering: And to touch a little bit on the whole HOA that you were mentioning, that was one of the things I learned in our Training Zone, that a lot of the HOAs, they would hear metal and they automatically just shut it down. And now we're educating them and showing them there are metal shingles. It is not your standing seam only type metal that is what they were having a problem with. Now they're seeing that there's a slate look, there's a cedar shake look metal shingle.

Terry Mcguire: Or they're seeing the standing seam in other places and they're like, that's amazing. It looks awesome. Maybe I should think about that again. Or they're doing a new build in a neighborhood that's more farmhouse looking. So I think that people's minds are really opening up to it.

Michelle Kettering: Right.

Heidi Ellsworth: It's been interesting too because one of the things I'm hearing and seeing too is that people are actually doing both the roofing and the siding in metal.

Michelle Kettering: Yes.

Amanda Nordmeyer: Yes.

Terry Mcguire: It looks amazing. You look at LinkedIn and see everyone's projects and they're doing the walls out of them and they're doing the roofs out of them and they're doing black on the roof, as you guys talked about, and then they're doing white board and batten below it, and then they're doing a maybe a 3D in another area of it or on a dormer, and it looks absolutely amazing. And it'll look amazing like that in 20 years. I think that's the great thing.

Heidi Ellsworth: That's the thing. It's going to stay. And also, we're dealing with kind of the severe weather. The severe weather, I think is driving some of this too. I'm just thinking on the West Coast, where we're at, fires. So to have metal roofing, metal siding, you've now just put yourself in a much safer position, although a wildfire is a wildfire. But also what we're seeing in Florida with the hurricanes. And so it seems like it's being driven from a lot of different directions.

Terry Mcguire: That makes a lot of sense in terms of it's better for being next to the coast. It's better for dry California, if it catches on fire. There's a lot of reasons that aren't necessarily about aesthetics. That's a good point.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah, it is. It's really interesting too. So I want to talk just a little bit about, as we're talking about technology, there's a couple of different things. But one of them that I love too is talking about the automation and robotics. And I know we're not quite there yet, but it's coming fast. So I would just kind of like some of your thoughts on what you're seeing, and Terry, I'll start with you, just on even in your manufacturing. From the manufacturing to the contractors and how this is kind of changing our world quickly.

Terry Mcguire: Yeah, I think we've covered a lot of what the NTM machine has done up to this point to try to simplify and to make it an ease of operation. Certainly, on the manufacturing side of that machinery, there's a lot of potential and we've started to utilize some of that potential. There's a lot of 3D printing that goes on now, and that's not new edge technology. But is there a way to 3D print actual rolls that will do the forming? And would they last? What materials are available? I think 3D printing, there's a long ways for that to go and a lot of opportunity for us on that.

Heidi Ellsworth: That's interesting.

Terry Mcguire: Using lasers in cutting our materials and using machinery that really doesn't allow us to have any flaws. Your tool's going to be the same as the guy's down the street. There's no difference. Everything's the exact same. It's really made putting the machine together very simple because all the parts go exactly where they're supposed to go, and they're the exact same size and they don't vary from the fifth part to the hundredth part. So really exciting. That gives us efficiencies. It drives down prices for everybody. And it's something that we're going to continue to go after in our manufacturing.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah, I'm seeing it. We've been doing through RT3, Roofing Technology Think Tank. We've been touring all these different plants, and with the robotic arms. And you can see the industry is just moving that way so rapidly. But there's also the technology of overall new products and also software. And I know MetalVue is software, but what kind of things are you seeing, Amanda, from a technology standpoint that Sherwin-Williams, because I knew you guys are the leader?

Amanda Nordmeyer: So we really hone in on the Roofing Passport. So when we first came up with the concept and started putting things together, technology of course evolves just as quickly. So being able to take that concept and then be able to do technology steps to make it more efficient, to make it user-friendly, it's constantly evolving. So just what it started with what it is today has already evolved to always have that user in mind. And I think it will continue to evolve. There's more and more things coming, and we'll have opportunities to be able to utilize that and make it a great experience for the contractors.

Heidi Ellsworth: It's pretty amazing when you think about it, the whole process for a roofing contractor of in-home sales, it's now on an iPad, or for the building owner, it's on an iPad. They're using a CRM, they're using EagleView and Roofing Passport, to the warranties, and doing techs to get the referrals. The world for the contractor is changing. It has changed. Michelle, how does LTD, how do you bring that in and decide what kind of technologies you're going to be adding?

Michelle Kettering: So we look at everyone having access to the same information. When you have different people working on the same project, we want to make sure that everybody has the same access to the same information for that particular project. So we've looked at different CRMs. We've actually been through different CRMs.

Heidi Ellsworth: I think every contractor has.

Michelle Kettering: But every contractor uses a different one because they operate differently. So the systems, there's a great system for each company. You just have to find it. So it's important for us to have all that information.

Heidi Ellsworth: The machines, the tools on the site. What are you seeing there?

Michelle Kettering: A lot of the work that we do is very custom. So that kind of leads us to stick to the hand tools. We can't really use a lot of the automation, but we would like to see something that would-

Terry Mcguire: Well, I've been trying. Her husband's sitting back here, you can't see him. I see a machine in your future.

Heidi Ellsworth: Michelle's like, "Come talk to me first." Yeah, that's it right there.

Terry Mcguire: I'm up here with three ladies.

Heidi Ellsworth: I know. Be careful what you go home with here, Michelle. They're selling them over there.

Michelle Kettering: Oh yeah, I'm sure we'll walk away with something.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah, I love it. Well, I think that those are the next steps as you're looking at it. What is the next step? How do you want to make it? Even when you're doing slate, tile, coppers and beautiful work, there's going to be parts of that, as the world is changing, while also keeping the old world hand tools that we're seeing.

Michelle Kettering: Right. Well, even, we've seen some products out there that eliminate some of the physical labor for us. Just by being able to move material from one place to the other on the roof, it's something that's usually backbreaking labor, and this is just going to make it easier. So there are products out there that do make it easier for all of us to do our jobs out there. And increasingly, every year there's something new that pops up.

Heidi Ellsworth: I know. And it's all here. It's all here at MetalCon. Okay. Let's talk a little bit about the labor shortage, because we've been kind of skirting around and talking a little bit about it. But really, the labor shortage is real. And I'd love to hear your thoughts, both as a manufacturer and also from what you're hearing from your contractors.

Terry Mcguire: Yeah, I mean, there's a labor shortage. There's been a labor shortage for several years. I don't see that trend changing. Let's talk about the NTM side of that first. For us it's about, we're a family, and we're taking care of the people that work on our team. We take care of them financially, we take care of them emotionally. We're there to be together for 20 years with the same players, and we treat them that way. So we don't have as much of a problem as many people do, because they want to work at NTM. They want to be there. They're proud of what they do. They're proud of the product that we put out. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but we're not as exposed to it as many people are because of the benefit package, because of what we do for them.

And we don't think that the best thing we have is a CNC machine. We think the best thing we have is our people. And we have awesome people. I have the best people, I got the best team. They don't really need me. They probably would like for me not to be around sometimes. I really, sincerely mean that. It's not a pitch, it's the truth. And that's how I plan to continue to lead our company. And I look forward to the opportunities that they're going to have and their growth. And so a lot of great stuff happening there.

When it comes to our contractors, we certainly see people that had plans of buying two and three machines that aren't doing it, because they can't find someone to run the machine or they can't find someone that has the technical capacity to run the machine, or the mechanical capacity. So what we've seen, the people that buy our machines, is that they're not as mechanical as the generation before them. And hence why we have to design that out and engineer that out as much as we possibly can. But it's affected them.

I have noticed in the last six months, if you want anything positive, that a lot of them that said a year ago, "I can't do it," are starting to come back saying, "Hey, I found another option. Someone that was working for me before decided to come back." So I don't really know. I don't have a crystal ball. I don't know what's going on. But there does seem to be a small sense of some people coming back. And there does seem to be some people wanting to come into the trades. And especially what you guys are doing with the craftsmen stuff, I know that's harder to find, but it seems like there's more people that are starting to look at that as that might be what I want to do and not be in an office behind the computer. So definitely a difficulty, but take care of the people that are around you and they'll stay.

Heidi Ellsworth: I was just going to say, drive culture.

Terry Mcguire: Drive culture.

Heidi Ellsworth: That's it. Drive culture.

Terry Mcguire: And I tell the contractors that come, "What are you doing for these guys? How do you make them want to stay there?" And sometimes they come back to me, and they worked on the crew and they're trying to buy a machine and they're saying, "Don't tell him." And I'm like, "Hey, I don't get into the politics of it. I'm not going out telling people who bought what. But we sell. We're not discriminating. So if you want to buy a machine, great."

Heidi Ellsworth: Well, I love that, because there's a lot of people out there in the industry who are like, "The labor shortage isn't as bad as it sounds because we aren't looking in the right places. There's places where we can put schools, vocational schools who've been really involved with Skills USA." It seems like we're getting a new generation coming up and going through that. And Michelle, I wanted to ask you too, just like as you hire a lot of Gen Zs, and we talked a little bit about this this morning, but what are you seeing labor wise?

Michelle Kettering: Definitely still much of a shortage. We have a lot in the slate and tile. A lot of the people are retiring, so we're losing these people that have all this knowledge. And they want to give it to people. They want to teach this to other people. So going out there and going to the community colleges, exposing people to it. They don't know that it's out there for them to learn. And so, by offering the trainings and things like that, and going out there in the community. We just go out there and look for inexperienced people. We will train you. We will train you.

Heidi Ellsworth: Sometimes it's easier to train new than to break bad habits.

Michelle Kettering: Yes. By far.

Heidi Ellsworth: That doesn't mean to keep coming in, everybody into roofing. And really, when we're looking at that too, Amanda, Sherwin-Williams has been doing so much around the Training Zone, being a sponsor through the MetalVue program training. And it just seems that that is the key to bringing in the next generation.

Amanda Nordmeyer: Yeah. Because they don't know what they don't know. So being able to bring that to the industry, to be able to educate and get more people interested.

Heidi Ellsworth: And it's across the board, when you think about it. I mean, it's all trades, painting, metal, roofing, you name it. So we need metal construction to be a little bit more glamorous than the next, or roofing, however you're bringing all that in together. [inaudible 00:34:56] is painting. We want painting to be glamorous too, although I know it's another division over there somewhere. Okay. I also wanted to talk a little bit just about the economy. You always have to be careful here. I'm like, okay. But I think it's interesting watching the economy because it feels like people have been wanting to try to put us in a recession for the last four or five years, right?

Terry Mcguire: A hundred percent.

Heidi Ellsworth: A hundred percent. And we're just not going to do it. And we just keep growing and keep doing it. So I'm just curious from all of your interactions, and you already said you've had a great year, looking at another great year. What are you hearing around the interest rates or just around the economy in general?

Terry Mcguire: Yeah. Certainly, prime is a concern. And I think the rate's at 7.5 right now, or I don't even know where it's at. I can't keep track. So one of the things I did at the show was to talk to the people who finance our machines. So we don't do that internally, we have a couple great partners. And certainly, people go to their own banks and their own lenders. And I said to them, I said, "Are you seeing any slowdown?" And they said, "No." And I said, "I don't understand that." And they feel the same way. They keep saying, "I'm expecting it to slow down, but it's not."

I asked them, are they doing anything? Are they doing a year without payments? Are they having to try to be creative? And they're not even doing those things quite yet. So I think some people are trying to come to the table with a little bit more cash. Certainly, the people out there that have the cash would rather pay for these things in cash than to pay someone seven and a half percent. And we all understand that. But I think the way you put it is very interesting because we have been fighting back wondering when it's going to slow down, and it doesn't.

Heidi Ellsworth: I know.

Terry Mcguire: So for us, it's a concern. It's always going to be a concern. But there's so much business for these folks that are utilizing our machines. That's why there's no slowdown, because they got to find a way to get the machine, whether the machine is expensive for them, whether they can get the loan. I think that one thing that's occurring with lenders, excuse me, is that they're being a little bit more picky.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. We've seen that.

Terry Mcguire: We're seeing the timeframe from the beginning of the relationship, and I'm trying to buy, and now I'm working with the lender, going from two weeks a week, literally to six weeks, seven weeks. And there's still not an answer. And it depends obviously on the borrower. But there's an impact for a machine company like us, though we have not seen it yet. And as long as metal continues to grow and there's more opportunities, they're going to find ways to buy these machines. And we're going to try to do everything we can to help them buy those machines through our relationships. And so we'll see if you're right. I hope we keep pushing back. I'm hoping the Feds quit raising the rate. But the thing is they're trying to do exactly what you're saying we're all saying no to. And so we'll see who ends up being the winner.

Heidi Ellsworth: I think, and we don't really like to say the C word of covid, but covid really changed the landscape where usually you have these cycles and everybody's kind of, okay, we're going to have this a little small recession or whatever. Now all bets are off. And it's really fun to watch The Economist.

Terry Mcguire: And some people are normally buying machines for tax credits right now. And I'm like, "Are you doing it for the..." "No, I just need the machine. Can you get it to me faster? Do you know somebody that has one that I can buy that's used?" Everyone's just that busy that they're doing anything they can to get ahold of these things because they're losing business.

Heidi Ellsworth: It's really interesting too, because we hear contractors across the country, there's some areas, Pacific Northwest, a little soft. But yet you talk to contractors there and they're like, "Well, we're so consistent with our customers. We really haven't seen any downturn," even though they're out there saying it's a little soft. So it seems like the contractors who are really being aggressive, who are being progressive, they're not seeing it because the customers still need it. There's still demand. And when you look at the amount of cranes and the amount of construction that's going on. We were driving here through Las Vegas, I could not believe the amount of houses that are being built still. It's nuts, coming from 10 years ago.

Terry Mcguire: And weather drives this as well. And there's been weather. It's a really unfortunate part of our business. We never want to see anybody have to deal with that or go through that. But certainly, we see a higher demand after there's a large weather event.

Heidi Ellsworth: Exactly. And Amanda, when we really look, I mean you guys have your pulse on the metal industry and the growth of that. What are you hearing from your suppliers, I mean all of the metal formers, everything like that, about the economy?

Amanda Nordmeyer: It's the same thing to me. Demand's still there. It's still staying strong. You have the economists' side of everything. And as interest rates go up, people start watching Housing Starts, you start looking at all those leading and lagging indicators to try to get that crystal ball, what's going to happen? So we keep a pulse on all of those things as people are talking and what's happening. But I'll be honest, I thought people were going to start to slow down as the interest rate started to peak up. I'm like, oh, we kind of went on a little upwards trend there, and I was like, things are going to start to kind of tighten back a little bit. And it's still seeing a great demand.

Heidi Ellsworth: You're still seeing it?

Amanda Nordmeyer: Yeah. But it's something you keep an eye on, right?

Heidi Ellsworth: Right. And we're seeing certain sectors, certain things get hit. And I know, Michelle, you've had a couple of your customers actually.

Michelle Kettering: Yeah. So we had one customer who had to delay their project because of financing issues. The rates were just too high, it just didn't make sense for them. But we weren't concerned because, again, there is no slowdown for us. So that was almost a little bit welcome because it's like, okay, well we can shift our focus this way and go that way. Because, again, we have not slowed down, just like most people.

Heidi Ellsworth: And it's crazy. And do you see, in your region, around the Carolinas, is still staying?

Michelle Kettering: Oh, construction is insane in our area. Wow. It's everywhere. I mean, you drive down one street, and the next two days, a whole wooded area's gone cleared and a whole new subdivision's popping up.

Heidi Ellsworth: Oh my gosh.

Michelle Kettering: Yeah. And it's everywhere.

Heidi Ellsworth: Well, I have a lot of friends up in Pennsylvania and up in that area, and they always say, "Yeah, we're going to move to the Carolinas."

Michelle Kettering: I know. We try to tell people We're closed. We're closed.

Heidi Ellsworth: That's like California to Oregon. Sorry, no more. No, sorry. Nothing gets my California friends.

Terry Mcguire: They get made fun of a lot. They're used to it.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah, they're used to it. That and New York. So we're good there. Okay. So one of the last things that I really wanted to talk about was MetalCon. And so the importance of this show and the importance of contractors really taking the time to come to the show, what they're going to see and what they're going to learn. So if you're giving advice to contractors out there, and I would love, other exhibitors, what's your advice about this show and why should they be here?

Terry Mcguire: For me, every time I come, there's all these new amazing things I didn't see before. And I think she pointed out, tools that didn't exist a year ago, ways for you to be more efficient, ways for you to go generate revenue. So there is a massive amount of knowledge inside this building right now around the metal industry. And so to miss out on that and not come and take a look, I think you're doing yourself a disservice. Also, by our booth is Elvis, and he's singing. So you get an opportunity to see Elvis while you're here.

Heidi Ellsworth: That's perfect.

Terry Mcguire: I went to a steakhouse last night, it was unbelievable. So there's a great time that goes on outside of it. But you build relationships and you see things that you wouldn't have thought of. I haven't had a lot of time to walk around so far. I've spent a little time. And there are things that I'm like, I can't believe they make that now, or it works that way. And I'm over there trying to look at it and see. So I really think you do yourself a disservice by not getting out and seeing what possibilities there are to make your life easier, to take some labor out of it or some of the backbreaking work out of it.

Certainly, at our booth, there's a lot of people over there. I bring service people, so there's techs available. We can talk through problems. We can decide what might be the next move for you, what profiles you might want to change out to, what's working in your region, what's not. So there's a lot of opportunity to build those relationships and talk back and forth. It's a great place to create new relationships. I think that's the biggest thing. Meet people.

Heidi Ellsworth: And what you just said there, that rings a bell with me of understanding the regionality, right? Because when you come here, you're going to see people from all over the country. But yet we know that certain areas want certain types of roofing or siding and they want different things. So you can learn about all that while you're here.

Terry Mcguire: Yep. Yeah. There's different requirements in Australia. Some of the stuff that we manufacture doesn't work perfect in Australia. It doesn't get wide enough. They like to have it be wider. So we learned that and we're like, okay, maybe that's something we should incorporate. So even a company like mine is learning from the people coming to the booth.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yes, yes. It's the networking and coming together. I mean, Sherwin-Williams sponsors so much and is so involved with MetalCon, and then the Metal Construction Association and stuff like that. Why should contractors be coming here? And why should more people be involved?

Amanda Nordmeyer: So to your point, the networking piece of it, the education, what is coming next? Sometimes you have a conversation with somebody and you learn something you didn't have any idea. But then also, as you're having those conversations, driving more partnerships, driving more networking, that's key. So we totally, as an industry, can continue to grow that metal roofing.

Heidi Ellsworth: And talking to each other. I love that. The networking.

Amanda Nordmeyer: Yeah, it's huge.

Heidi Ellsworth: And you know what? I think we need to lift our industries, whether it's roofing or metal construction, we need to lift. How you do that is by coming together and doing the things that matter, sponsoring, help each other out. So the Training Zone really, I think, exemplifies that.

Amanda Nordmeyer: Absolutely.

Heidi Ellsworth: So why should other contractors be coming to MetalCon?

Michelle Kettering: For me, it's a time saver. I get to look at all the new things, things that I didn't even know I needed. It's the exposure.

Heidi Ellsworth: Like [inaudible 00:45:47] machines?

Michelle Kettering: Yeah. Like machines.

Terry Mcguire: They're going to be at my booth as soon as we get done.

Heidi Ellsworth: Walk them down there.

Michelle Kettering: I'll just hand you my checkbook now.

Terry Mcguire: Yes, you can do that too.

Michelle Kettering: But I know a lot of contractors may look at it as, oh, I don't have time. But like you said, they're doing themselves a disservice by not coming because there's been times when I have to research something to see if there's something out there. It's time-consuming. I'm wasting the time. We're here, I can actually touch and look and test out certain things. It's a time saver. It's all in one place. And so you're exposed to other things that you are not aware of that are out there. The other thing too, that I've noticed is, you can give feedback to manufacturers and they appreciate that because they're willing to listen and go back and reassess what they have and what they offer. And so that's great for the contractors because we end up getting what we need.

Terry Mcguire: That is a hundred percent true. And I have a page full. And some of it's very creative and from their perspective. And I'm like, okay, that makes sense. Let's go back. Let's hash that out with the engineers, talk about it and maybe bring it back with us next year.

Michelle Kettering: It's marrying the contractors with the manufacturers. And for me, I'm a CEO, I'm in the office, but I'm also out in the field. For me, it's important to have my office people out in the field as well. You have to have an understanding. When you're a manufacturer, you have to understand what we're doing out there to give us what we need.

Terry Mcguire: A hundred percent.

Heidi Ellsworth: And this is the place to do it.

Michelle Kettering: This is the place to do it.

Heidi Ellsworth: And I think, I know that there are companies, and this isn't bad, I'm not saying it's bad, but there are companies who are like, "Well, maybe that's just not the show for me." But I kind of feel like if it's exterior metals, it's the show for you. And to that point right there, contractors are coming here looking for solutions. And if you're not here. So I'm a big proponent of trade shows, obviously.

Terry Mcguire: And not all the times is it just a salesman? It's amazing, especially at this show, how many owners are there? How many people that are engineers that are there, or people that you can build a relationship with. So you have a problem, you could be like, "Hey, Terry, we talked at the show." And I'm like, "Oh, I remember you." And that that's a big deal, and much better than just calling a 1-800 number.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yes, it really is. And I have to mention too, the Metal Construction Association is part of this show. And so by supporting MetalCon, you're also supporting your associations, which you have to have the associations. That's where it all comes together all year round. Well, thank you all.

Amanda Nordmeyer: Thank you.

Heidi Ellsworth: Can you believe it, we got through all those questions?

Terry Mcguire: Yeah, we did great. And she did great. I actually want to say that.

Heidi Ellsworth: I just want to say right now. So any last thoughts before we call these Coffee Conversations a Success?

Terry Mcguire: No, just I think it was a great time here. I'm really glad that I had a chance to be here. Thanks for letting me be here with you. And thanks again for letting us sponsor. So look forward to next year.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah, we'll do it again. I love it. I love all the information. We'll keep coming back with more. Amanda, any last thoughts for everyone?

Amanda Nordmeyer: I appreciate you letting me sit at the table and having an opportunity. But yeah, it's exciting. So as we get more into this, in the sponsorships and the conversations, it's another reason to get the motivation to continue to do more.

Heidi Ellsworth: To keep doing more. I know. That's how we feel too. And by the way, you did great.

Amanda Nordmeyer: Well, thank you.

Terry Mcguire: She'll be asking to come back.

Heidi Ellsworth: She was trying to-

Terry Mcguire: As soon as she leaves, she's like, "Can I get an invite?"

Heidi Ellsworth: Forget it, Mark. You're out. Michelle, last thoughts.

Michelle Kettering: If you're a contractor, you need to be here. That's it.

Terry Mcguire: Yeah, good point.

Heidi Ellsworth: You need to be here and check out the Training Zone. A lot of this is going to all be on a video that you'll be able to watch on Metal Coffee Shop. We're going to have all these interviews. We're going to have the Training Zone. We're coming to Sherwin-Williams, we're at New Tech. We're capturing a lot this year. So even if you can't make it, be sure to check that out. And that's why we want to talk about what's hot, what's trending, and what's happening around the country. So once again, thank you all for being here.

Terry Mcguire: Thank you.

Michelle Kettering: Thank you, Heidi.

Heidi Ellsworth: And thank you all. This will be on demand within the next 24 hours. We are so proud to be able to bring Live Coffee Conversations sponsored by New Tech Machinery to you, even though you can't be at MetalCon. But we're planning on seeing you next year in Georgia for MetalCon because of all these great comments. So we'll be back with more interviews today. Thank you for joining us. And we'll see you soon.