Tom Stortz - Tools of the Trade - PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with Tom Stortz from John Stortz & Sons. You can read the interview below, listen to the podcast or watch the MetalCast episode. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Hello, and welcome to Metal Cast from Metal Coffee Shop. My name is Heidi Ellsworth, and I am here today, we're going to be talking about one of our favorite topics, tools. Yes, we're going to talk about tools and everything that goes around that, from the expert in the business, Tom Stortz. Tom, welcome to the show.

Tom Stortz: Thank you. Happy to be here.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: We're excited. This is the fun stuff. My dad was a general contractor, grew up around the shop and all the tools, especially specialty tools, which we're going to talk about today. And who doesn't like that?

Tom Stortz: Absolutely.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: So before we get started, I would love it if you could introduce yourself and your company.

Tom Stortz: My name is Tom Stortz. I've been with John Stortz and Son for going on 18 years now. Our business started in 1853, so it's a fifth generation family business. It's always been in Philadelphia. Yeah, same building and everything, so it has a lot of history behind it. Times have been changing, so we're actually getting pushed out of this building, but it is still pretty amazing. I know there's plenty of people out there who've kind of come by. They've seen our old machinery and it's turning into more museum than it is a manufacturing facility, but it's still pretty neat.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That is cool. So talk a little bit about John Stortz and Sons, the business itself. What do you provide? Just give everybody a little level set.

Tom Stortz: Yeah, sure. So the business, being a fifth generation business, we've gone through a lot of different ... Hand tools is kind of what its specialty is started with. And it was all manufacturing, it was a German immigrant who came over here, started the business. He started making ice skates. That's how the story goes. And they kind of made cheese cutters and masonry tools, paint scrapers. They did make metal roofing tools all the way back then. So the business sort of transposed from all manufacturing, and we've started doing more of a wholesaling capacity just because I think in about the '70s or so, my dad's dad kind of came to the realization that manufacturing wasn't going to be as profitable as it was in the past, so he started some of these old kind of connections that we've been using for a lot of years. So we've now been selling, using our website to sell a lot of these specialty slate tools, sheet metal tools, and just a lot of different types of roofing accessories.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Wow. Very cool. And who's running the business today?

Tom Stortz: So we bought the business from my dad, we being me and my two brothers. We have a sister too, who is not involved in the business. But we did buy that from him, I want to say two and a half years ago. It was a long time because I was kind of running it with my two brothers for a little bit there, so it took a while and a lot of convincing to get him to actually sell the business to us. And I'm the president of the company, and they have ownership. We have another employee, but we're a small company. And if you kind of saw the facility we were running out of, we're limited in our growth.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Like I said earlier, I grew up in the trades. My dad was a general contractor. You grew up with in the manufacturing, distribution company. And how things are happening today with the labor shortage and trying to get the next generation involved, I'm really interesting on a little bit of your story, on how it was growing up in this business, fifth generation. And what are maybe some of your advice or thoughts to other young people who want to get in?

Tom Stortz: The way I came into the business, I worked during the summers. And I didn't go to school for any types of trade or anything. I went to a university [inaudible 00:03:45] and got a degree in finance. And I think my very first year after coming to John Stortz and Son after seeing sort of where we were and kind of how to make money from manufacturing, that sort of became more interesting to me. So my background really isn't from the trades as much as it's from the business running side, so I think that's what really excites me, is trying to kind of continue the John Stortz and Son legacy and building the business.

So yeah, my summers, they weren't ... I mean, it's an interesting kind of path to where we've gotten today because my dad was all nose to the grindstone manufacturing. I mean, we did a lot more manufacturing back then. And I guess in my time, we've just kind of changed that, so I think that's in order to keep going, we did what we had to do.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Right. That's so true because very similar, grew up painting, roofing, general contracting things, and then went to school for communications and never thought I'd come back into the trades, and then ended up back in roofing.

Tom Stortz: That's how it works.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And you've got a story you hear a lot.

Tom Stortz: That's how they grab you in.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That's how they bring you in. So okay, I want to talk about your business, John Stortz and Son, and how it fits into the metal roofing market. I really want to talk about: Who's your ideal customer? And who do you see really purchasing not just tools, but all the accessories, everything that you have for metal?

Tom Stortz: So when we get people who come into our shop, the line I hear a lot is, "I feel like a kid in a candy store," and it's because we have such unique products, and these products generally aren't your same types of items you're going to find at the standard bigger type of distribution. So our customers are looking for the better quality tools to do better work. And if you talk to anybody about us, we are not going to be the cheapest option out there. I mean, when people come to us, they spend money because they know what they're purchasing. They're purchasing products that are going to do better work, last longer, and they're what the professionals are using out for the trade. And our ideal customers then become the guys who progressed into the metal roofing trade and standing seam, and then usually if they're getting into the mechanical lock system, that's going to be the upper echelon of standing seam, those are the types of tools and the types of customers that we've been catering to.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. And a lot of those customers also are doing other specialty roofing, slate, tile, [inaudible 00:06:23]. I mean, that's how you and I met was at the National Slate Association. And it was so amazing to see the projects with the combination of slate and metal.

Tom Stortz: There are a lot of similarities between the slate roofers and the sheet metal workers. Yes, they're the types of trades, they require a certain skillset that you don't get with your common roofer.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I love your comment about kid in a candy shop because that's what I see all the time. And as the roofers are coming in and purchasing, it's a different experience purchasing from stores than it would be, like you said, from roofing distribution or even looking at the big box. And kind of give us a little bit of an example of that experience. How do you help, especially roofers who maybe want to get into metal and who are just exploring this? What kind of service and help can you provide?

Tom Stortz: Yeah. And I think that's tricky because we could probably do a better job with that. We are not roofers ourself, but I think we get a lot of guys who they're bidding projects that they're not always 100% certain how to do and what these tools are used for. So you have to have a pretty deep understanding of what these tools do. And when you start getting into this high end custom work for sheet metal, radius, facades, just different types of radius pieces, there's a lot of technical details out there that I can't do the work myself, but I have an understanding of how the tools work. So that gets into it's a tough thing. I always kind of say, "If you're buying a golf club, you don't go to the store and say, 'How do I use this?'"

So it's kind of like a tough sell for us because we have the tools to offer and I think we provide from what John Stortz and Son is all about is, I mean we have the tools in stock. We ship quickly if you get it from our website. So we really try to support the sale and make sure that the customers are happy with the end result.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Right. You made me think because we've become friends with this. And I'm not going to use full company names or anything, but there's this awesome company down in California. And Ray, who's the owner, actually brought on Emily as an apprentice because of exactly what you just said, that you have to go through the apprenticeship, the training, to really understand, to get to the highest level of installations-

Tom Stortz: Agree.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: With the type of tools that you're talking about. Okay, let's talk a little bit about the difference internationally. So we hear all the time about the master crafts on men and women of Europe, and master roofers. And hopefully I'm saying that right. But how are you seeing that? You sell internationally. You've been involved I know through the Slate Association a lot of the places internationally. How are American roofers different from what you've seen from Europeans? And really, how can we kind of catch up?

Tom Stortz: As I've gotten to spend more time here in this kind of business, that's the one key aspect that I notice because I've been over to a couple of the European roofing shows. And with a lot of the vendors there, we're taking a lot of their products and bringing them back. There might be a few that we could offer to them, but for the most part, they are centuries ahead of us in terms of roofing. And their quality is for the most part higher, and they have a different culture in that, that they generally build their, and this is from the residential side, I don't know about commercial, but they build their homes to last generations. They're built to be passed down. I mean, I don't know what the average time span that the people in the United States stay in one home, but I think it's five or seven years or something.

People are jumping around all the time, so these Europeans, they've created different types of roofing systems and the techniques that they use to last a long time. And they've put together apprenticeship programs where they go to roofing school for a few years. And I don't think the United States has that in the same regard. I mean, I know you've talked to [inaudible 00:10:20] Sheridan a bunch, and he's trying to put those trainings together, and it's something that this industry desperately needs to continue to enhance the roofing skills because the Europeans, I mean, when you're a roofer, you are looked at, revered. I mean, it's a nice trade to say. I mean, you're doing something that's putting on an exterior of a home that lasts a long time. I don't think that we get the same type of respect here in the United States with the terminology of roofer.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And I think to your point, the training, the fact that they're going to training, schools, actually schools for that, has created a culture within ... I mean, this is obviously centuries old, but there's a culture of respect within Europe that we don't have here. And a lot of times, that does come down to training and understanding and building that pride, which we're working really hard on. But without that foundation, I think it gets lost a little bit.

Tom Stortz: Yeah. And I think that goes hand in hand with the tools as well because they have a lot of these high end tools that they've developed over long periods of time. So it's not surprising to see these guys kind of ahead with some of the products they've been delivering and what we sell.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: At the last couple trade shows we've been to, you have actually brought on technicians, I would say, for demonstrations of tools from Europe. And we have video on it. You all out there, check it out on YouTube. It is just so cool. But can you talk about the tools that you brought in, that demonstration, and the reactions you received from the people at the shows?

Tom Stortz: Yeah. I think demos are a huge part of the trade shows, which some people do that, but just at this past IRE, I know that the SRCA was doing a trade show where they were putting in a nice valley, and it garners so much attention, so we had some ... There's a manufacturer over in Latvia who produced these products, which they'd end up mechanical lock standing seam profiles in one pass, so you don't need a break and you can do 20, 30 foot length panels. So they came over, they were demoing that. And then you have a seaming tool, which is a cordless, so you can seam the product, or seaming the panels together, and then there's a cutting tool, which will go and cut the seam right under. So that type of flow gives the roofer, the metal roofer, who maybe hasn't seen those types of tools for mechanical lock, an understanding of the process. And I think the demos are very helpful with that.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: What was the feedback and the reaction from the contractors of those demos?

Tom Stortz: So I think the IRE in Dallas was very well attended. I think one thing that I learned from that though was that a metal roofer isn't necessarily a mechanical lock, standing steam installer. So a lot of the people who saw those types of tools, I think it's nice that they know that they're out there, but I don't think it fits into their day to day a lot. And then the people who are installing inch, inch and a half mechanical lock, I think they connect with it because it's pretty hefty investments. I mean, they're a couple thousand dollars for these products, so it's something that a lot of people I think want to see just before shelling out that kind of cash. And yeah, being able to demo it I think is helpful. It gives people a better understanding.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. I walked by the slate booth, they were over by us where we were recording, a number of times. And it was great. I mean, people were just standing around watching it. I went by one time, and a gentleman was holding up a slate and they'd punched a hole out in the middle, and he had his face in it. I mean, they were just very engaged in the booth. And so I think you're 100% right. We need to have more hands on.

Tom Stortz: People don't know until they see that up close, there's not a lot of people who will have ever seen slate roofing before. So when they do go to the trade show, they can see it up close, see that it's a material that's going to last hundreds of years, see what types of woven valleys, I know what the SRSA was putting out there, that's an advanced class on how to slate, but just seeing that is helpful.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: So speaking of slate and metal, we know that they're very entwined. We saw that at the National Slate Show, our convention. But can you kind of talk about the contractors who install slate and metal and the importance to them? So your top specialty contractors, the importance of the right tools.

Tom Stortz: Yeah. I think when you start getting into these roofers who move into the mechanical lock systems and the slate guys, they have a different probably appreciation than just your average roofer. They are guys who are developing skills to install roofing systems that last for very long periods of time. I mean, when these guys are installing roofs, you're not getting a call from these guys for hopefully 25, 30 years, or having to see these people is what I'm saying. So it's a higher level of competitive advantage as a roofer to be able to do these types of tasks and to install roofs like that. So I think the guys who are in this and the customers that I meet, our contractors, they take this very seriously and they know that they're investing in products to do the best type of work. And I think we see that with a lot of our customers that are repeat customers because that's the other thing.

These tools, like I said, they're not inexpensive. It takes years and years to build your toolbox so that you have the proper tools. When you show up on the job, your client knows that this guy's going to do a good job. And I think that's our type of contractor, the guy who has gone through it, he wants to be a roofer, and I think that's a specialty roofer. I guess that's just what we've developed that over the years to sort of know who our customer is.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That's awesome. I mean, that's exactly how it should be. I do want to be sure to know that you are president of the National Slate Association. And you very involved with the slate community, with the metal community. And that to me speaks volumes also, is the fact that it's not just about selling tools, but it's about what you've done to be a part of this specialty on community that is just putting on some of the most amazing projects out there.

Tom Stortz: Yeah. I'll speak briefly about that because it is pretty interesting to be the president of the association because it's not like I'm a slate installer. But I think what I'm learning in this type of tight-knit community, and I know this is Metal Cast, so I'll keep it brief.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It's all right.

Tom Stortz: The slate world, everybody kind of knows everybody. And the people involved, they're so passionate about keeping the trade going that you see a lot of connection in that. And I think you do see the same thing with these sheet metal contractors. You can go to the specialty social media groups and pages, and when the guys are kind of running into the same problems and sharing, exchanging ideas, yeah, the specialty roofing metal trade is the same way. It's a very tight-knit community. And the goal is to grow these areas because they're better systems. They might be a little bit more expensive, but I think it's up to us to kind of keep promoting those ideas that installation once is better than having to redo subpar jobs.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yes, exactly, exactly. Well, Tom, I love this, as you well know. I'm always somewhat of a fan girl of the slate, the metal, all of the specialty contractors. But for all the contractors out there who want to get into this more and want to learn more, let's talk a little bit about first of all: Where would you recommend that they go to get more information? And then also, how can they get ahold of you to buy tools?

Tom Stortz: Sure. Our company website is www.stortz.com, S-T-O-R-T-Z. It's our last name. That has a plethora of information just on all of the products you can buy direct through the website. I'm sure that if you wanted to get further information on the ... I know slateassociation.org is the NSA, SRCA I think is slateroofers.org. I know that Metal Coffee Shop has tons of information on there. I think finding the forums, I'm not really sure, honestly. I don't really peruse the forums probably and some of the groups on Facebook as much as I probably should.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: There's only so much time.

Tom Stortz: But I know that there's ... I know. It's difficult. But I'm sure there's tons of information there. I think a lot of people use ... I know people scan our videos on YouTube. Instagram, I know is still in fashion. And I'm honestly, the TikTok game is a little lost on me. I'm not going to lie. Haven't got that far yet.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Me either. We do have some members of Metal Coffee Shop who are doing a great job on it. I'm a little bit slow on it. But I do, that's what I would say too, is that just get out there if you're interested in ... If you're already doing metal roofing and you're interested in getting into more of the specialty, there's a lot of information out there. And you can find that through all of our partners on Metal Coffee Shop, through Stortz and Son, and a lot of the companies that are out there that can at least direct you in the right way. And there is so much information.

Tom, thank you. I'm very excited for this. And I'm excited for everybody to be able to kind of check out and see. I know you showed tons of information there, and it's something we're going to keep profiling.

Tom Stortz: Yeah. And I'll conclude just by saying that I think with what's going on here, I think the idea is to continue to promote the better install. And I don't know how it's going to kind of play out because I don't know where our culture really is in terms of putting together things that last. And we're trying to grow the metal roofing industry, and it is growing because it's such a great product.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It is.

Tom Stortz: And it's like getting people to care about that, where you're going to have to spend some money to do a better job. And I guess I think the hard thing to get people to realize is by doing a better job, you're enhancing your reputation. You're enhancing probably the amount of dollars you can earn on your jobs, and it'll give you a head or a leg up against your competition. And I think that's what we're trying to do with when you talked to John Sheridan, he was actually in our shop today. I mean, these are the types of conversations where we're saying, "What is the mission?" And yeah, of course, selling tools is what we do. But it's also promoting better systems, better installs, and it's going to take a lot of ... One person can't do all this by themself. It's a lot of integration.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: A lot of training, a lot of commitment to the industry. And same shout out to John Sheridan.

Tom Stortz: Sure.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: He's doing some great training. And it's all coming together. One other note that I want to make to everybody too is if you are interested in doing more metal, whether you haven't done it before or whether you already have metal, but you want to do more, definitely look at Metal Con. Metal Con is in the fall, and Tom is there, we are there. It is a great show to learn more on all levels of installing metal roofing, siding, metal frame buildings, insulated panels, you name it. That's a good place to start.

Tom Stortz: Yeah. The trade shows are interesting. There's a lot of activity there, relatively expensive, I do think for the exhibitors. But I think that you don't get that type of exposure anywhere else.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That's true.

Tom Stortz: It's something that we've been doing here for the last couple years and probably will continue to do moving forward.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. So you can check out those demos.

Tom Stortz: Good stuff.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Tom, thank you so much for being on Metal Cast.

Tom Stortz: Time flies. Yep. Thanks for the interview, Heidi.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Thank you. And thank you, everyone, for watching. Again, you can find all this information on Metal Coffee Shop under the John Stortz and Sons directory. You can find everything there, great ways to get in touch with Tom. And also across the board, we have all kinds of different articles, information that's coming out on this every day. Also, be sure to check out all of our Metal Casts. They're under the read, listen, watch initiative under podcasts. And you can see what everyone else is saying, including one we had earlier with John Sheridan. So keep watching these. This is a great way to get that information and bring it into your whole company. And finally, please be sure to subscribe to YouTube, the Metal Coffee Shop channel, so that you can get this. Set the notifications when we're on, and then also on your favorite podcast channel. Be sure to subscribe, Metal Coffee Shop, and set notifications. And we'll be seeing you next time on Metal Cast.