Jena & Jonathan Jackson - Sales and Installation Training with Indiana Metal - PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with Jena and Jonathan Jackson from Indiana Metal. You can read the interview below or listen to the podcast.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Hello and welcome to another MetalCast for a Metal Coffee Shop. My name is Heidi Ellsworth and I am here today, very excited. We are going right to the industry to talk about what's going on in metal. We are here with Indiana Metal, with John and Jena Jackson, and I'm just so excited. We have not had anyone, who's really doing it day in and day out and putting out the products, making all this high performance metal in the industry. So I'm really excited. Jena, John, thank you for being here today.

Jena Jackson: Thank you for having us. We're really excited to be here.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: You guys got quite the setup. You're looking amazing, I have to say

Jonathan Jackson: Straight off the shop floor, looking like this.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Right off the shop floor. I like it. That's even better. That's so cool. Well, good. Well, what we want to do, is we want to learn about you and about Indiana Metal and everything that you're doing. So let's start out with introductions. So first, Jena, if you could start by introducing yourself, telling us a little bit about you and your company, and then we'll have John introduce himself.

Jena Jackson: Sure. I am Jena Jackson. I am part owner of Indiana Metal and we were in central Indiana. We are really convenient, right outside Indianapolis. We really try to be a partner for our contractor company. We try to really just make metal easy and make it something that all contractors can offer and do, and we're really excited to get our name out there and have more people know about us.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That's awesome. I love it. I love; make it easy. That's what we all need to do in life. John, please introduce yourself.

Jonathan Jackson: Hi, my name's Jonathan Jackson. I've been in the roofing industry for about 18 years. I started out with shingles, just like everybody. I've done everything from asphalt shingles to low slope and currently do a lot with metal obviously. So I just try to keep up on all current trends and work hard and provide the best product we can.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That's great. That's great. Well, let's start with the story of Indiana Metal. So maybe Jena, you can start out just telling us the history, how you both got started and from both of you. But Jena, why don't you start?

Jena Jackson: Sure. We used to own an install company. I was not very active in that. I worked in the corporate world for a long time and Jonathan really handled our install company pretty much by himself. And as it grew, we really started to specialize in metal and we were fabricating all of our own metal for that company. We had the new tech machine, we had the 10-foot break. We were specializing in standing seam, the architectural panels, and we started talking about a way that we could maybe, not install, not do so much physical labor and maybe also a way that I could join the company, in a day-to-day aspect, which is not something I'd been doing.

So from that Indiana Metal was born, we started it and it grew much faster than we expected. So we were only a couple years in when I started, but it was great timing. I quit the corporate world and started working in our own business day-to-day. I had to shift my mindset for that, but I did and really glad to be self-employed, working in our business and helping it grow its legs so it can run.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That's so great. And we're a family business too, and so a lot of people are always like; oh, can you really work together and stuff, but really it's great. At least that's what we found.

Jena Jackson: We honestly don't even see each other. People ask us that all the time. We never see each other. I manage the office. He's either in the production shop or he's on a job site. We go entire days and never see each other until we get home at night. So yeah, we always get that question and it's like, we really don't work together that much.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: You just run it together.

Jena Jackson: Yes. Yeah.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: So John, really, when you're looking at where you've been and having your own contracting company and seeing the needs out there, talk a little bit about that, about what drove you, both of you obviously, to grow the business, but to really start providing and manufacturing roll forming. What were you thinking as you made that shift?

Jonathan Jackson: Well, like everybody, I started out in shingles and that style of roofing, pretty much always doing a roof day, was kind of the thing that we started with. And when I started doing a lot of metal, we figured out how to do a metal roof for the day, which was completely unheard of [inaudible 00:04:59]. And we got to where it was an assembly line on the job site. Everyone had a job. We were doing it really, really quickly. We had very, very few fallbacks. So we're really doing a good job. A lot of guys kept coming to me and saying; hey, how are you doing this? How's it working?

And we were fabbing stuff. I've always had a machinist background. That's what I went to school for. I've liked that side of working with the machines. I just decided to start helping guys and pushing the product and teaching them how to do it quickly, efficiently, make money at it and do a good job, is my main thing. So out here there are a lot of really good installers and there are a lot of really bad installers, and it's not maliciously bad, they just are unaware of techniques to help be quick and efficient, make more money. So I really like helping guys take their job site, turning that around, and that was a big factor when I decided to go more towards of manufacturing on it.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That's awesome. I love it. And you guys do have a really strong customer philosophy in your company. Tell us a little bit about that. Jena, maybe start at how you, I mentioned it earlier and John just talked about it, but how do you want to interact with your contractors and what's that philosophy for your company?

Jena Jackson: We really want to be their partner. We really want to help customers, contractors who either haven't previously done metal or haven't done much of it, contractors who think there's no money in it. We hear that sometimes; there's no money in metal, because it takes so long to put it on. We really believe that we can help them turnkey it, like Jonathan was talking about, the assembly line process on the job site through the techniques that we have tried and used ourselves in our own previous business and then also through the training that we offer. We truly just want to help people grow their own businesses, offer more things, not turn down a job. If somebody comes to them and says; I want metal, don't say, oh, no, no, no, no, no. You don't. Just say; great, let's do that. Look for the opportunities to upsell and try to make it more profitable for them.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, I think-

Jonathan Jackson: ... to the customer, that's a huge one as well. We want the customer to end up with their product as well. The actual... Their customers.

Jena Jackson: The homeowner. Yeah.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That final beautiful roof or siding or whatever it may be out there. John, you're looking at having been a contractor, getting the training and everything, how do you work with contractors who want to, like Jena just said, want to get into metal? What are some of the steps to help getting them trained, their crews trained and understanding how the systems work?

Jonathan Jackson: Well, now that we're working with this MetalVue project, that's helped out quite a bit, that's really streamlined a lot of the beginning info. And then really when I talk to guys that haven't done anything with metal, I really try to relate it to shingles. It's the same thing, we're still keeping water out of the house and once they break it down and realize that this isn't some unheard of specialty roof that hardly anyone knows anything about, it seems like they open up and then realize that it's another roofing system, another tool in their tool belt to provide customers and they really usually catch on pretty quickly.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: So let's talk a little bit about that MetalVue program through Sherwin-Williams. We have it all over Metal Cast and we've all just started working together... I mean all over the Metal Coffee Shop I should say. And we've started working together. Indiana Metal has an amazing directory on Metal Coffee Shop. So how has it been this getting involved with MetalVue and what kind of response are you hearing, Jena?

Jena Jackson: It's been great. So before MetalVue, we'd already been trying to piece away on our own at the same concepts, very similar tools, the training, the faster estimating, all of those things. And when we partnered with MetalVue, it really was like a light switch, I feel like. Just the fact that it's backed by Sherwin-Williams, everybody knows Sherwin-Williams. That in and of itself is such a great tool to offer our customers, to be able to go into their jobs and talk about it being Sherwin-Williams. But just all of the components of MetalVue have been great. They've really helped speed up estimating the visualizer. We're still getting that set up, but it's going to be fantastic once that's going. Just all of the different components and meeting so many people in the industry has really been huge.

Jonathan Jackson: A catalyst, it's been a big help. A lot of contractors are really enjoying being able to see where every single panel goes.

Jena Jackson: The Roofing Passport portion has been...

Jonathan Jackson: Yeah.

Jena Jackson: Yep.

Jonathan Jackson: That's been huge.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: John, talk a little bit more about that, because as a contractor and having both experience, I mean that Passport is pretty cool with the EagleView and how detailed they can get. What are you hearing working with the contractors, as they're using those systems?

Jonathan Jackson: Well, a huge problem with metal roofing, especially for new guys, is keeping track of where all the panels need to go. Figuring hips and valleys can be problematic if a guy doesn't have some experience with that. And it's honestly where we were really succeeding with our rental program, by providing guys with machines, so they could just make stuff on site. But with the Roofing Passport, it's producing cut lists that are very detailed, very accurate and it really makes cut up houses a breeze. That just took part in a project, where we delivered an entire panel pack on a fairly decent size house, very cut up, and those guys had no issues at all getting all the panels in the right spot. I think we sent two extra panels like usual, and they even had one left over, which is pretty unheard of on a pretty difficult project like that.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Wow.

Jonathan Jackson: So it's been really, really well received so far.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And what do you see? Is it a combination of your current customers getting involved in it and learning about it? Do you also see some new customers coming in through the MetalVue?

Jonathan Jackson: It's a mix. Some of our current customers are a little stuck in their ways, so they're a little slower to take on with the MetalVue. Our newer customers are loving it, but the guys that give it a shot, that are current customers, are seeing some real value to it and there's no doubt about that.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I want to go back, you just said something really interesting that I want to get, that you said you have a rental program?

Jonathan Jackson: Yeah, so we have several onsite roll formers that we will rent out for our customers, which has been really, really popular with our standard team applications, either for specialty jobs, maybe extremely longly panels. We've taken part in some jobs at hundred plus foot panel links run out, and then really cut up jobs, just help keep waste down by running just what's needed. So that's been super popular. And then if it's a stock color that we have, we even take back leftover oil, which is really popular with guys. Yeah.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. I've been around, but I haven't heard that too often. So I think that's a pretty unique differentiator of what you're doing to be able to offer that into your area. That's very cool. Training wise, talk about that then, because you're doing the rentals, you're out there, you're training, you're getting people going. What are you seeing along that line?

Jena Jackson: So we have done training for a while. We used to have a mobile unit and we would take it... We've got little miniature houses that we would load up and we would take it to contractors, to their offices, and we'd do training onsite there. We still do that, if they prefer it to be at their location. We also, this past winter, built a separate training facility at our shop. So we have a separate building. You can come to us, we'll host a training. We do sales. Jonathan does all of our install trainings on all of our systems. The sales trainings, our sales manager usually handles those, but he's doing, I would say, two to four a week.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Wow.

Jena Jackson: So he's doing quite a few of those. They're usually pretty quick, a couple hours, but we go through the basics. We also have online training through MetalVue, which has been great. Also, if people can't come out or time doesn't allow, but we're having people even from out of state call and ask if they can get install training at our shop, which the answer is yes. We're fine with that. We just really want to help as many crews as possible and just get metal roofing out there more.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, that's great. The need, and I'm sure you're seeing this, but the need for training in metal roofing installation and metal siding too, there's just such a huge need out there that you're meeting something that a lot of people don't know where to go.

Jonathan Jackson: Yeah, it's... And a real hands-on training is what I've been trying to provide. Not some book stuff maybe, with some easy details. We have hemmed valleys, dead end walls, all sorts of things that we can do and go over, and really, I'm finding that most guys that are good roofers are having no problem picking it up. So that's been pretty interesting. Very few people come in and struggle with it other than maybe the first 30, 40 minutes, but once they see what we're doing, they take to it pretty well.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That's excellent. What a great benefit. So let's talk a little bit about your products, just what you're offering out to your contractors. Maybe John, if you can just give us an overview of what are some of the formatting or role forming that you're doing for all the different parts and pieces and systems for your contractors?

Jonathan Jackson: So we cover a really, really wide range. Anything from 29, 28 gauge screw down systems for pole barns. We do whole pole barn packages, all the way up to 22 gauge, low slope, fanning seam stuff, parapet caps, edge metals, gutters, downspouts, do some copper work. And then we build some scupper boxes too. It's a pretty wide range. Really anything that I did as an installer, I try to provide. And I guess fortunately I touched a lot of different aspects. So I'd like to say we're pretty inclusive on what we can do for people.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: So when you're talking about working with the contractors and growing their business, I'm just really curious too, what you've seen with your experience, both in the office, out in the field, what are you seeing in the growth of metal? How much are you seeing? Are you just seeing a lot more happening out there and homeowners asking for it? What's your take? Jena, why don't we start with you?

Jena Jackson: I think it varies by area. In our specific area, I think homeowners have been asking for it for a while, and there have been a few companies that were actively pushing it. I think a lot of companies were trying to maybe not... Maybe stray the homeowner away from metal even, which I think is where MetalVue has come in great and will continue to come in great, just to show everyone, this is easy. This is something that my company can offer. This is a product that I can sell to homeowners. But I do think that it is growing. I think in certain aspects, a lot of the metal and shingle mix look is really, at least around here, it's becoming huge. So houses that maybe never, ever would've had metal before are now having the accents, the eyebrows, the porches done in metal. And I think that's just going to continue to grow.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And so we're seeing too, and you mentioned the full package for pole barns. We're also seeing, just being at the National Frame Builders Show earlier this year, we saw that a lot of residential barn [inaudible 00:17:14] are starting.

Jena Jackson: We live in one.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: You do?

Jena Jackson: Yeah.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Okay. Tell us about it. We want to hear about it.

Jonathan Jackson: The pole barn style, home building concepts easy and quick and cheap to build. So a lot of people are taking that concept and modifying it and making some really cool projects. Anything from post in ground to stem walls to just some really beautiful homes being built with that concept in mind. And it's pretty fun to be a part of.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I love it. And you said you live in one?

Jena Jackson: We do. We built it last year. Yeah. It doesn't look like a barn, but you can make it modern. Like Jonathan said, it's fast to put up and you can do whatever you want with it. Ours looks pretty modern and it's great. It was easy to build.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Wow. I'm just so impressed with both of you and the company you've built. As you're looking at this MetalVue program and everything else that you're doing, where do you see, going forward, how much is that MetalVue program going to really start differentiating contractors and Indiana Metal? Because there's not too many people who are doing it right now. So what do you see future-wise with this?

Jonathan Jackson: I think it's going to be huge for the restoration guys, the companies that have three to five or more salespeople, that they're bringing them in and trying to get them trained up. The ones that are chasing a lot of the storm style work, those are the guys that have been talking people out of metal or treating it like an incredibly specialty project, and they're getting a hold of MetalVue and seeing that it's another, like I said, tool in their tool belt that they can go out, make a sale and do a good job, not have callbacks and provide a good experience all the way around. And I think it's going to be huge for those guys.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, I do too. I do too. Okay, last question. I just have to... Well, actually it's not last. I have a couple more. But Jena, coming from corporate into the trades and running your own business and owning your own business, how's it been?

Jena Jackson: It's been good. It was an adjustment at first. My first full year at Indiana Metal was 2021, and their supply chain issues were a real thing, so that made it really difficult. But thankfully, knock on wood, we're past that. That's behind us. So that's made my job a lot easier. But it's been good. It's a lot faster paced environment than I was used to, which is both good and bad. Sometimes it's still a little bit hard to keep up, but it definitely keeps me busy and I'm happy to be happy to be here.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. Well, I have to say, as another woman in roofing and in the metal, the partnership that you two have and what you're bringing to the industry just does amazing things.

Jena Jackson: Thank you.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I'm so happy to have you both on Metal Coffee Shop and your amazing company. So let's tell contractors who are out there, who are listening to this, who want to get involved, who want to be in obviously MetalVue program, how do they get in touch with you and how do they get started?

Jena Jackson: So they can reach out to our office, they can call us, they can email us. Our website is indianametal.com. All of our contact information's on there, just reach out and say they want to be part of MetalVue and we can get them hooked up.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And you don't have to be part of MetalVue to do business, obviously.

Jena Jackson: No, no, no.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Well, great. Thank you both so much. This is so great. For everybody listening and watching, Indiana Metal does have a full directory on Metal Coffee Shop, so you can find all their information there. We're starting to get articles and doing a lot of great coverage to really help everyone get to know Indiana Metal even better. And obviously I'm just really thrilled. Thank you so much for being on Metal Coffee Shop and for being on the show today, John and Jena. It's just been fabulous.

Jena Jackson: Thank you so much.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Thank you. And thank you all for listening and watching. Be sure to check out Indiana Metal and the full MetalVue program on Metal Coffee Shop in the directories and articles. You'll find them everywhere. And then also thank you so much for being a part of Metal Cast overall. Be sure to check out all the episodes under the read, listen and watch navigation on Metal Coffee Shop, or on YouTube where you need to be sure to subscribe and set your notifications along with your most favorite podcast channels. Just set those notifications, so you don't miss a single episode and we will be seeing you next time on MetalCast.